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Comments on: GST as a neutral tax? http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2007/07/30/gst-taxes/ The Visible Hand in Economics Mon, 02 Jun 2008 20:52:00 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.4 By: Interesting critiques from LAANTA « The visible hand in economics http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2007/07/30/gst-taxes/#comment-99 Mon, 02 Jun 2008 20:52:00 +0000 http://tvhe.wordpress.com/2007/07/30/gst-taxes/#comment-99 […] second post argues that goods and services taxes are infact regressive, contrary to my own musings. This is something I will discuss in this […]

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By: Cullen’s conditions and GST rates « The visible hand in economics http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2007/07/30/gst-taxes/#comment-98 Mon, 14 Apr 2008 19:42:34 +0000 http://tvhe.wordpress.com/2007/07/30/gst-taxes/#comment-98 […] that any proponent of a GST rate cut will think is sewn up.  However, as we have discussed earlier, goods and services taxes may not be as regressive as they first […]

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By: Relative prices and GST « The visible hand in economics http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2007/07/30/gst-taxes/#comment-96 Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:10:30 +0000 http://tvhe.wordpress.com/2007/07/30/gst-taxes/#comment-96 […] time we have been covering specific issues with how income tax and GST influence economic activity. This post was supposed to describe how an increase in GST with a proportional decrease in a flat income tax […]

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2007/07/30/gst-taxes/#comment-95 Mon, 30 Jul 2007 03:06:56 +0000 http://tvhe.wordpress.com/2007/07/30/gst-taxes/#comment-95 But, we have increased the persons income by x%, while also increasing the price of goods now and in the future by x%. Now a person will save until the MU of spending a dollar now is the same as the MU of saving the dollar and spending it in the future. As we have increased the persons income, but also increased the price of goods now and in the future by the same amount, then the individuals behaviour would not change.

I do agree that if the person was currently a saver their would be a problem. In fact I thought my tone in the post was that it wasn’t a good idea in practice, however I can’t write properly so that probably didn’t happen.

However, I do think, that for a person with no savings or borrowing, that believed that what ever tax arrangement was around would stay the same into the future, the switch of the tax from income to consumption would not change behaviour.

With the utility function thing, I reckon it would be cool to look at optimal progressiveness, in a model with multiple agents with different utility functions. Getting labour supply into that could be pretty cool.

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By: rauparaha http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2007/07/30/gst-taxes/#comment-94 Mon, 30 Jul 2007 02:29:10 +0000 http://tvhe.wordpress.com/2007/07/30/gst-taxes/#comment-94 Sorry, I was quite unclear about what I meant. I was suggesting that a flat tax should mean that the monetary cost of the tax should be borne by everyone equally. We can tell that it is borne equally if the imposition of the tax on a previously untaxed, risk neutral person doesn’t cause them to change their behaviour. If the interest rate on savings is different from the discount rate that the person applies to future consumption then the imposition of the tax will change their behaviour.

Certainly, the sum of lifetime tax paid will be the same but I wouldn’t consider that a good measure of whether a tax is ‘flat’ or not. Taking the possible variation in utility functions and risk aversion into account would complicate things beyond the scope of a blog post comment so I haven’t thought about that much.

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2007/07/30/gst-taxes/#comment-93 Mon, 30 Jul 2007 00:53:05 +0000 http://tvhe.wordpress.com/2007/07/30/gst-taxes/#comment-93 I think the fundamental difference in our arguments here is what constitutes a flat tax.

Now I think you are saying that a flat tax should ‘disadvantage everyone equally’, ergo the the dis-utility they suffer from the tax should be directly (and linearly) proportional to their income. However, if that is how we described a flat tax, then a ‘flat income tax’ would not we flat, as people have diminishing marginal utility.

The way I see it a flat tax implies that people pay the same proportion of their income in tax. Now, whether you tax someone when they are payed, or when they are consuming shouldn’t matter, as over a persons lifecycle they exhaust their entire income on consumption. As a result, a flat GST tax works just like a flat income tax, over an individuals lifecycle.

Now even if we thought their should be a flat tax (I’m sure neither of us do) one issue is, that if we scrap income tax now, and put in a flat GST, people who have saved are taxed twice.

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By: rauparaha http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2007/07/30/gst-taxes/#comment-92 Mon, 30 Jul 2007 00:20:10 +0000 http://tvhe.wordpress.com/2007/07/30/gst-taxes/#comment-92 Well, this ignores the effect of discounting on the NPV of future spending. Even without thinking about utility, the discount rate and interest rate on savings must be the same in order for the NPV of savers and non-savers (with identical wealth) to be equal. That doesn’t even take into account the behavioural results concerning hyperbolic discount rates and the likely difference between the utility functions of poor and rich people. I think this analysis makes a few more assumptions than I’d be comfortable with in order to justify a flat tax.

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