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Comments on: Economic scissors: Trial and error http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2007/08/28/economic-scissors-trial-and-error-2/ The Visible Hand in Economics Thu, 30 Aug 2007 03:45:54 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.4 By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2007/08/28/economic-scissors-trial-and-error-2/#comment-230 Thu, 30 Aug 2007 03:45:54 +0000 http://tvhe.wordpress.com/2007/08/28/economic-scissors-trial-and-error-2/#comment-230 Thats true, and thats an important distinction to make. Ultimately you have to decide what question you are answering.

Ultimately it depends on how much of the benefit of the given investment the firm gets. If we have a market where firms get all the benefit from their investment (it is both specific and they can extract the whole surplus that is created), then perfect competition would work fine. However, when we change those conditions there can be all sorts of complications (e.g. if your investment can be used by all other firms, then in perfect competition you only get an infinitesimal proportion of the gain, and so will hard out under-invest).

However, I’m pretty comfortable looking at the question of innovation and equilibrium adjustment separately for now, although I am sure there is plenty of interesting overlap.

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By: Owen http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2007/08/28/economic-scissors-trial-and-error-2/#comment-229 Thu, 30 Aug 2007 03:39:44 +0000 http://tvhe.wordpress.com/2007/08/28/economic-scissors-trial-and-error-2/#comment-229 With all the stringent conditions that ‘perfect’ competition requires there is very little actual competition going on between firms, fine in a static environment, but in the real world which is dynamic it would result in near zero innovation – zero progress.

As long as perfect competition as a comparison is fine, as long as its not used as a reason to interfere in otherwise free markets.

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2007/08/28/economic-scissors-trial-and-error-2/#comment-228 Thu, 30 Aug 2007 03:02:51 +0000 http://tvhe.wordpress.com/2007/08/28/economic-scissors-trial-and-error-2/#comment-228 I think perfect competition is desirable, as it maximizes total surplus. All these other market imperfection simply reduce the surplus associated with the market. As it provides the maximum level of welfare, it is a useful to compare it with other situations

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By: Owen http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2007/08/28/economic-scissors-trial-and-error-2/#comment-227 Thu, 30 Aug 2007 02:16:14 +0000 http://tvhe.wordpress.com/2007/08/28/economic-scissors-trial-and-error-2/#comment-227 But perfect competition is neither perfect nor desireable in real life. Its not a good standard to evaluate things against…

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2007/08/28/economic-scissors-trial-and-error-2/#comment-226 Wed, 29 Aug 2007 22:18:54 +0000 http://tvhe.wordpress.com/2007/08/28/economic-scissors-trial-and-error-2/#comment-226 It is in a equilibrium, but not in the sense of a purely efficient market equilibrium.

If we are in a situation where the benefit to the consumer and the producer outweighs the transaction cost, but the transaction cost is greater than the benefit to the consumer or producer alone, then without some sort of co-ordination we will remain in a sub-optimal situation. This is because the consumer or producer won’t have the incentive to pay the transaction cost to get the benefit even though it is socially optimal.

In this case if one could compensate the other, or if they could share the transaction cost, then we could head towards a socially optimal equilibrium. But without that we end up in a pareto inefficient equilibrium.

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By: Owen http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2007/08/28/economic-scissors-trial-and-error-2/#comment-225 Wed, 29 Aug 2007 22:03:10 +0000 http://tvhe.wordpress.com/2007/08/28/economic-scissors-trial-and-error-2/#comment-225 So from what you have said, it is in equilibrium.

The list price of the pie does not include the transaction costs, but if you were to draw a diagram as above, you would need to include these in the ‘price’ and therefore would come to the equilibrium given the information available.

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By: Kimble http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2007/08/28/economic-scissors-trial-and-error-2/#comment-224 Wed, 29 Aug 2007 06:17:15 +0000 http://tvhe.wordpress.com/2007/08/28/economic-scissors-trial-and-error-2/#comment-224 SOLUTION:

Get their phone number and call ahead to reserve the pie!

(Also works if you want to get the last blue budgie in the shop.)

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2007/08/28/economic-scissors-trial-and-error-2/#comment-223 Wed, 29 Aug 2007 05:56:48 +0000 http://tvhe.wordpress.com/2007/08/28/economic-scissors-trial-and-error-2/#comment-223 Hey, I said that the transaction cost was implicit. Think of it this way, you explained it in a general fashion, I just took a subset of explainations for exposition purposes. So in a sense you were more right than me 😉 . However, I thought what I wrote was sufficient for whatever point I was trying to make.

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By: rauparaha http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2007/08/28/economic-scissors-trial-and-error-2/#comment-222 Wed, 29 Aug 2007 05:34:31 +0000 http://tvhe.wordpress.com/2007/08/28/economic-scissors-trial-and-error-2/#comment-222 OK, so I can cope with being told off for talking about transaction costs. But when you then answer every other comment by citing transaction costs involved in the exchange of information??? Now I feel hard done by 😉

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2007/08/28/economic-scissors-trial-and-error-2/#comment-221 Wed, 29 Aug 2007 02:34:47 +0000 http://tvhe.wordpress.com/2007/08/28/economic-scissors-trial-and-error-2/#comment-221 Indeed, Mmmmm pie.

I agree that if I signaled my interest instead of buying a substitute we could head towards equilibrium. However, it is costly for me to apply that signal, I really don’t want to go up and ask for that pie. As a result, the asymmetric information remains, and the transition to equilibrium just doesn’t happen.

The reason I am quite sure that we are out of our perfectly competitive global equilibrium is that I’ve seen other people looking for the chicken pie, and if I don’t get down there early enough (and sometimes even if i’m down there at 10.30 when the pie is still cold) the damn chicken pie is gone. I think that there is a lot more underlying demand for the chicken pies, but people like me just keep on grunting and buying the curry ones instead 😉

On a side note, I like pies because they are cheap, if I could get an equivalent lunch in some other way for only $3.90 I would be interested. If there was a chip and fish store nearby that might do the trick 😉

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