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Comments on: How much poorer is New Zealand than Australia? http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2008/09/18/how-much-poorer-is-new-zealand-than-australia/ The Visible Hand in Economics Mon, 17 Nov 2008 18:50:48 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.4 By: Do we want “productivity growth”? « The visible hand in economics http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2008/09/18/how-much-poorer-is-new-zealand-than-australia/#comment-2488 Mon, 17 Nov 2008 18:50:48 +0000 http://tvhe.wordpress.com/?p=1119#comment-2488 […] would directly help us close the income gap with Australia – a gap that DOES exist (although it may not even be an issue).  However, saying that “we will increase productivity” is not useful – it is like […]

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2008/09/18/how-much-poorer-is-new-zealand-than-australia/#comment-2487 Thu, 18 Sep 2008 02:47:41 +0000 http://tvhe.wordpress.com/?p=1119#comment-2487 “Sure it would be nice to have used more than just average GDP per capita, but you haven’t cited anything that would convince me that this is a biased estimate of the income gap between the two countries.”

Completely fair point – however, this is an issue that should have been covered in the NZIER report during the initial research methinks.

“Australia’s income distribution is less unequal IIRC.”

Indeed it is – which should actually make it spin the other way. A very interesting fact.

“And comparing median income just tells you how much richer one person in Australia is than one person in New Zealand, so hardly very descriptive either”

But it should help compensate for the differences in the income distribution – ultimately I would have preferred research that at least attempted comparing like for like before making policy conclusions.

Ultimately, I took issue with the fact that NZIER took GDP per capita as a given income measure, and then went on discussing “income-gaps” in the knowledge of these technical issues associated with using that measure.

If they can show the same thing with average median household wage I’d be more interested – if they can then go on and show that wage gaps exist in certain industries I would be even more interested (I have actually seen this sort of work from them before – which was part of the reason I was disappointed with this).

This release was supposed to be “public good work” – it was supposed to add to the body of intellectual capital in the country. I just don’t think it stood up to those standards.

Note: I am not saying that NZ is not significantly poorer than Aussie – I am just saying that this study wasn’t a very good way of analysing any such discrepancy.

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By: CPW http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2008/09/18/how-much-poorer-is-new-zealand-than-australia/#comment-2486 Thu, 18 Sep 2008 02:38:53 +0000 http://tvhe.wordpress.com/?p=1119#comment-2486 Sure it would be nice to have used more than just average GDP per capita, but you haven’t cited anything that would convince me that this is a biased estimate of the income gap between the two countries. Australia’s income distribution is less unequal IIRC. And comparing median income just tells you how much richer one person in Australia is than one person in New Zealand, so hardly very descriptive either – at least average GDP gives some idea of the resources available to society as a whole.

Given Australia’s lower employment rate, their output per worker is even higher than GDP per capita comparison would suggest.

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2008/09/18/how-much-poorer-is-new-zealand-than-australia/#comment-2477 Thu, 18 Sep 2008 02:29:46 +0000 http://tvhe.wordpress.com/?p=1119#comment-2477 “Here’s a question for you then: do you seriously think we’re ever in steady state or even close thereto? I tend to think it an ever-moving target.”

Indeed I agree we are constantly moving, mainly because the steady state is always moving – overall though the steady state is a magnet be are being pulled towards.

An interesting question is “what moves the steady state” – fundamentally technology and institutional issues have to play a large role in this I would suspect – and this movement in the steady state is what truly drives growth.

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2008/09/18/how-much-poorer-is-new-zealand-than-australia/#comment-2485 Thu, 18 Sep 2008 02:29:08 +0000 http://tvhe.wordpress.com/?p=1119#comment-2485 Thanks for the link Owen – definitely of interest!

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By: Eric Crampton http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2008/09/18/how-much-poorer-is-new-zealand-than-australia/#comment-2478 Thu, 18 Sep 2008 02:22:00 +0000 http://tvhe.wordpress.com/?p=1119#comment-2478 Has to equilibrate in steady state, sure. But so long as institutional quality here continues to have relative downwards surprises, it can take a while to get to steady state.

Here’s a question for you then: do you seriously think we’re ever in steady state or even close thereto? I tend to think it an ever-moving target.

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By: Owen http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2008/09/18/how-much-poorer-is-new-zealand-than-australia/#comment-2484 Thu, 18 Sep 2008 02:18:04 +0000 http://tvhe.wordpress.com/?p=1119#comment-2484 http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2007/12/why-is-new-zeal.html
Might be of some interest..

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2008/09/18/how-much-poorer-is-new-zealand-than-australia/#comment-2476 Thu, 18 Sep 2008 02:12:21 +0000 http://tvhe.wordpress.com/?p=1119#comment-2476 “Higher ex ante MPk in the country with higher average income, which is what generates the mass in the right tail of the income distribution to begin with. If you do it up right, you even get capital moving from the poor country to the rich country in search of the higher returns!”

But in the steady state the MPK must be equal between the countries – which implies that this effect is only transitory doesn’t it? It explains why total production is higher in one country, sure – but it does not tell us that growth in one country will exceed the other once this higher production level is reached. This relies in overall growth in productivity, which is effectively a random walk with a trend.

However, I think we are in agreement that if two countries have different resource endowments, GDP per capita will differ (stemming from your discussion of “ex-ante” MPK) – even in the absence of policy failure. As a result, looking at international comparisons of GDP per capita as an objective measure relative living standards in countries is a dodgy way of discussing the success/or requirement of further policy.

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By: Eric Crampton http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2008/09/18/how-much-poorer-is-new-zealand-than-australia/#comment-2472 Thu, 18 Sep 2008 01:57:52 +0000 http://tvhe.wordpress.com/?p=1119#comment-2472 Higher ex ante MPk in the country with higher average income, which is what generates the mass in the right tail of the income distribution to begin with. If you do it up right, you even get capital moving from the poor country to the rich country in search of the higher returns!

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2008/09/18/how-much-poorer-is-new-zealand-than-australia/#comment-2479 Thu, 18 Sep 2008 01:21:53 +0000 http://tvhe.wordpress.com/?p=1119#comment-2479 I agree that a lower MPK must rely on some sort of institutional deficiency (or a bias against investing in some country) – however the K/L ratio depends on the aggregate production function, which is definitely different between Aus and NZ, and does not have to equalise even in the face of perfect capital mobility.

However, unless one of us is stating that the MPK is a function of a countries GDP per capita, how does this relate back to whether a country with a higher average income, but the same median income as another country has a higher rate of growth – it definitely has a level of activity, I’m just can’t understand the growth rate argument yet 🙂

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