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	<title>Comments on: Frog&#8217;s (next) attack on &#8220;economics&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2008/11/20/frog-next-attack-on-economics/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2008/11/20/frog-next-attack-on-economics/</link>
	<description>The Visible Hand in Economics</description>
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		<title>By: Great work, thanks.</title>
		<link>http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2008/11/20/frog-next-attack-on-economics/comment-page-1/#comment-3523</link>
		<dc:creator>Great work, thanks.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 18:05:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tvhe.wordpress.com/?p=1993#comment-3523</guid>
		<description>Top work</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Top work</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Nolan</title>
		<link>http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2008/11/20/frog-next-attack-on-economics/comment-page-1/#comment-3522</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Nolan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 23:52:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tvhe.wordpress.com/?p=1993#comment-3522</guid>
		<description>This isn&#039;t really a Green party post - it is a Frog post.  Frog is a scientist and supporter of the Green party - and he thinks we are &quot;quasi-scientific&quot;.

I am not really sure what he means by that - but I have tried to describe what I think is the methodological hard core of economics (very little - although a useful little) and state that the problem Frog has surrounds subjective value-judgments made by economists.  My best answer to that is simply:  At least using a clear economic method makes our value judgments transparent - so that they can be criticised easily.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This isn&#8217;t really a Green party post &#8211; it is a Frog post.  Frog is a scientist and supporter of the Green party &#8211; and he thinks we are &#8220;quasi-scientific&#8221;.</p>
<p>I am not really sure what he means by that &#8211; but I have tried to describe what I think is the methodological hard core of economics (very little &#8211; although a useful little) and state that the problem Frog has surrounds subjective value-judgments made by economists.  My best answer to that is simply:  At least using a clear economic method makes our value judgments transparent &#8211; so that they can be criticised easily.</p>
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		<title>By: agnitio</title>
		<link>http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2008/11/20/frog-next-attack-on-economics/comment-page-1/#comment-3521</link>
		<dc:creator>agnitio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 22:09:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tvhe.wordpress.com/?p=1993#comment-3521</guid>
		<description>also, weren&#039;t we (just for fun) going to title any posts about the greens and economics as &quot;Greens Watch:[insert topic here]&quot; :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>also, weren&#8217;t we (just for fun) going to title any posts about the greens and economics as &#8220;Greens Watch:[insert topic here]&#8221; <img src='http://www.tvhe.co.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Matt Nolan</title>
		<link>http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2008/11/20/frog-next-attack-on-economics/comment-page-1/#comment-3520</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Nolan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:10:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tvhe.wordpress.com/?p=1993#comment-3520</guid>
		<description>&quot;People who don’t understand economics often get confused between economics being stupid and stupid economists:) &quot;

Agnitio that was brilliant :)

Kimble&#039;s statement was also awesome ;)

&quot;Rather than blame economic methodology for the current state of the world economy, I think that it is pretty clear that what we are seeing is the result of a series of pretty bad failures of governments.&quot;

No doubt - however, the economics discipline did not foreesee the crisis.  If we believe that such prediction is the role of economics (as economists have sold themselves to be on many occasions) then in some sense it does constitute a failing of the practice of economics.

&quot;There is another basic rule of economics that they forgot: “incentives matter”.&quot;

I believe that is capture by the existence of preferences and the fact that behaviour occurs at the margin :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;People who don’t understand economics often get confused between economics being stupid and stupid economists:) &#8221;</p>
<p>Agnitio that was brilliant <img src='http://www.tvhe.co.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Kimble&#8217;s statement was also awesome <img src='http://www.tvhe.co.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>&#8220;Rather than blame economic methodology for the current state of the world economy, I think that it is pretty clear that what we are seeing is the result of a series of pretty bad failures of governments.&#8221;</p>
<p>No doubt &#8211; however, the economics discipline did not foreesee the crisis.  If we believe that such prediction is the role of economics (as economists have sold themselves to be on many occasions) then in some sense it does constitute a failing of the practice of economics.</p>
<p>&#8220;There is another basic rule of economics that they forgot: “incentives matter”.&#8221;</p>
<p>I believe that is capture by the existence of preferences and the fact that behaviour occurs at the margin <img src='http://www.tvhe.co.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: goonix</title>
		<link>http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2008/11/20/frog-next-attack-on-economics/comment-page-1/#comment-3519</link>
		<dc:creator>goonix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 19:06:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tvhe.wordpress.com/?p=1993#comment-3519</guid>
		<description>&quot;They also cannot distinguish economists from hedge fund managers, investment bankers, and Gordon Gecko himself.&quot;

LOL!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;They also cannot distinguish economists from hedge fund managers, investment bankers, and Gordon Gecko himself.&#8221;</p>
<p>LOL!</p>
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		<title>By: George Bolwing</title>
		<link>http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2008/11/20/frog-next-attack-on-economics/comment-page-1/#comment-3518</link>
		<dc:creator>George Bolwing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:52:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tvhe.wordpress.com/?p=1993#comment-3518</guid>
		<description>Rather than blame economic methodology for the current state of the world economy,  I think that it is pretty clear that what we are seeing is the result of a series of pretty bad failures of governments.

As  Eamonn Butler of the Adam Smith Institute put it:

“This crisis was not caused by capitalism being fatally flawed. It was caused by politicians forcing banks to give out bad loans, monetary authorities flooding the West with cheap credit and regulators being asleep at the wheel.
...

“When the government is persuading the casino to hand out free chips and the regulators are standing drinks at the bar, you shouldn&#039;t be surprised if the customers place a few risky bets.

“It&#039;s the management and not the system that deserves our scorn for breaking the basic rules of economics: There is no such thing as a free lunch.”

There is another basic rule of economics that they forgot: “incentives matter”.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rather than blame economic methodology for the current state of the world economy,  I think that it is pretty clear that what we are seeing is the result of a series of pretty bad failures of governments.</p>
<p>As  Eamonn Butler of the Adam Smith Institute put it:</p>
<p>“This crisis was not caused by capitalism being fatally flawed. It was caused by politicians forcing banks to give out bad loans, monetary authorities flooding the West with cheap credit and regulators being asleep at the wheel.<br />
&#8230;</p>
<p>“When the government is persuading the casino to hand out free chips and the regulators are standing drinks at the bar, you shouldn&#8217;t be surprised if the customers place a few risky bets.</p>
<p>“It&#8217;s the management and not the system that deserves our scorn for breaking the basic rules of economics: There is no such thing as a free lunch.”</p>
<p>There is another basic rule of economics that they forgot: “incentives matter”.</p>
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		<title>By: Kimble</title>
		<link>http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2008/11/20/frog-next-attack-on-economics/comment-page-1/#comment-3517</link>
		<dc:creator>Kimble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 09:14:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tvhe.wordpress.com/?p=1993#comment-3517</guid>
		<description>They also cannot distinguish economists from hedge fund managers, investment bankers, and Gordon Gecko himself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They also cannot distinguish economists from hedge fund managers, investment bankers, and Gordon Gecko himself.</p>
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		<title>By: agnitio</title>
		<link>http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2008/11/20/frog-next-attack-on-economics/comment-page-1/#comment-3516</link>
		<dc:creator>agnitio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 04:28:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tvhe.wordpress.com/?p=1993#comment-3516</guid>
		<description>People who don&#039;t understand economics often get confused between economics being stupid and stupid economists:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People who don&#8217;t understand economics often get confused between economics being stupid and stupid economists:)</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Nolan</title>
		<link>http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2008/11/20/frog-next-attack-on-economics/comment-page-1/#comment-3515</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Nolan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 04:10:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tvhe.wordpress.com/?p=1993#comment-3515</guid>
		<description>Matt, I notice you have treated &quot;realism&quot; as a goal of policy - is that really consistent with Friedman&#039;s call to arms, that all that matters is predictive accuracy?

&lt;strong&gt;Note I am asking myself this question - as it needs an answer&lt;/strong&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt, I notice you have treated &#8220;realism&#8221; as a goal of policy &#8211; is that really consistent with Friedman&#8217;s call to arms, that all that matters is predictive accuracy?</p>
<p><strong>Note I am asking myself this question &#8211; as it needs an answer</strong></p>
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