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Comments on: Watchmen movie: Really a critique of utilitarianism? http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/04/06/watchmen-movie-really-a-critique-of-utilitarianism/ The Visible Hand in Economics Wed, 22 Apr 2009 21:52:34 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.4 By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/04/06/watchmen-movie-really-a-critique-of-utilitarianism/#comment-19199 Wed, 22 Apr 2009 21:52:34 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3515#comment-19199 @Miguel Sanchez

Hi Miguel,

Indeed – the real trade-off here is a few million lives with the amount of time that the threat works.

If they don’t keep blowing up the odd thing to make the threat of Dr Manhattan credible, then over time people will begin to defect – as the implied cost of doing so will be lower.

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/04/06/watchmen-movie-really-a-critique-of-utilitarianism/#comment-19197 Wed, 22 Apr 2009 21:49:45 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3515#comment-19197 @Tom M

Hi Tom,

I have been told it is a critique of utilitarianism – but I didn’t really see it that way. It seemed like, if you didn’t agree, it was because you didn’t agree with the weighting placed on different aspects.

Ultimately, it illustrated one of the hard things about policy – having to make choices when all outcomes look sucky!

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/04/06/watchmen-movie-really-a-critique-of-utilitarianism/#comment-19196 Wed, 22 Apr 2009 21:48:11 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3515#comment-19196 @Will de Cleene

He sounds a lot like a social planner in the comic then 🙂

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By: Topics about Comics » Archive » Watchmen movie: Really a critique of utilitarianism? (470106) http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/04/06/watchmen-movie-really-a-critique-of-utilitarianism/#comment-18811 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 14:55:42 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3515#comment-18811 […] Robot 6 @ Comic Book Resources – Covering Comic Book News and Entertainment placed an interesting blog post on Watchmen movie: Really a critique of utilitarianism? (470106)Here’s a brief overviewI haven’t read the comics or any of that jazz, but I was told that it provided a compelling critique of utilitarianism. […]

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By: Miguel Sanchez http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/04/06/watchmen-movie-really-a-critique-of-utilitarianism/#comment-18800 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 08:03:21 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3515#comment-18800 I’d be interested in a ‘game theory’ perspective on this, from someone who’s better versed in it than I am. Seems to me that Ozymandias’ plan might work as a one-shot solution, but maybe not in an infinitely-repeated game – as Laurie (film) or Dr Manhattan (comic) says, “nothing ever really ends”. The world may be all friendly and sharing in the short term, but over time the temptation to ‘cheat’ by stockpiling nuclear weapons would surely creep in again. And it’s already established (more so in the comic) that Dr Manhattan is not that effective a deterrent in the first place – Russia accumulated far more warheads in Watchmen-world than they did in real life.

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By: Watchmen bmovie/b: Really a critique of utilitarianism? | TVHE | Danielc blog http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/04/06/watchmen-movie-really-a-critique-of-utilitarianism/#comment-18788 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 01:51:52 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3515#comment-18788 […] Continued here:  Watchmen bmovie/b: Really a critique of utilitarianism? | TVHE […]

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By: Tom M http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/04/06/watchmen-movie-really-a-critique-of-utilitarianism/#comment-18785 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 01:11:19 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3515#comment-18785 I’m not entirely sure it is intended as a critique of util. Obviously we’re suppose to feel distate at the ‘kill some to save many’ consequence of it, but it seems like the film sets it up so there’s no other option. Even the smartest guy in the film, Doctor Manhattan, is at the end persuaded by the utilitarian argument, despite his original misgivings. He even blows up Rorschach to defend it.

It seems to me like the film’s saying ‘utilitarianism sucks, but the alternatives are worse’.

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By: Will de Cleene http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/04/06/watchmen-movie-really-a-critique-of-utilitarianism/#comment-18784 Mon, 06 Apr 2009 00:23:04 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3515#comment-18784 One point that comes across better in the comic is the interaction of the players. Huge chunks relate to the interaction of the minor characters; the newspaper vendor, the taxi driver dyke, Rorschach’s shrink. These are “the villain’s” sacrifices.

The villain is never seen interacting with these people. You have a man pretending to be a god and a god pretending to be a man. It’s not so much about utility as futility.

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/04/06/watchmen-movie-really-a-critique-of-utilitarianism/#comment-18782 Sun, 05 Apr 2009 23:45:37 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3515#comment-18782 @Keith Ng

Sounds very interesting – I might have to give the comics a look at some point …

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/04/06/watchmen-movie-really-a-critique-of-utilitarianism/#comment-18780 Sun, 05 Apr 2009 23:44:01 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3515#comment-18780 @rauparaha

The way I see it utilitarianism is a framework for discussing value judgments. As a result, anything that attacks utilitarianism is usually just attacking the value judgments made by the person using the argument – not the framework.

I agree that this makes utilitarianism in itself empirically empty – but I think economists only use it in the framework regard.

As a moral philosophy I’m under the impression that utilitarianism roles with some shady value judgments (such as weighting individuals equally). That may give the subject a bit more bite (in terms of providing conclusions) – but when value judgments are just given to us I don’t see it as the essence of what utilitarianism means to economists.

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