Notice: Function _load_textdomain_just_in_time was called incorrectly. Translation loading for the jetpack domain was triggered too early. This is usually an indicator for some code in the plugin or theme running too early. Translations should be loaded at the init action or later. Please see Debugging in WordPress for more information. (This message was added in version 6.7.0.) in /mnt/stor08-wc1-ord1/694335/916773/www.tvhe.co.nz/web/content/wp-includes/functions.php on line 6131

Notice: Function _load_textdomain_just_in_time was called incorrectly. Translation loading for the updraftplus domain was triggered too early. This is usually an indicator for some code in the plugin or theme running too early. Translations should be loaded at the init action or later. Please see Debugging in WordPress for more information. (This message was added in version 6.7.0.) in /mnt/stor08-wc1-ord1/694335/916773/www.tvhe.co.nz/web/content/wp-includes/functions.php on line 6131

Notice: Function _load_textdomain_just_in_time was called incorrectly. Translation loading for the avia_framework domain was triggered too early. This is usually an indicator for some code in the plugin or theme running too early. Translations should be loaded at the init action or later. Please see Debugging in WordPress for more information. (This message was added in version 6.7.0.) in /mnt/stor08-wc1-ord1/694335/916773/www.tvhe.co.nz/web/content/wp-includes/functions.php on line 6131

Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /mnt/stor08-wc1-ord1/694335/916773/www.tvhe.co.nz/web/content/wp-includes/functions.php:6131) in /mnt/stor08-wc1-ord1/694335/916773/www.tvhe.co.nz/web/content/wp-includes/feed-rss2-comments.php on line 8
Comments on: Smoking, preferences and internalities http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/04/15/smoking-preferences-and-internalities/ The Visible Hand in Economics Wed, 01 Feb 2023 19:00:48 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.4 By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/04/15/smoking-preferences-and-internalities/#comment-19011 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 10:39:24 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3592#comment-19011 @Eric Crampton

😀

The goal is to wind people up – so I’m glad to hear that.

]]>
By: Eric Crampton http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/04/15/smoking-preferences-and-internalities/#comment-18982 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 02:51:14 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3592#comment-18982 Yes, fat taxes. I was in the middle of my scrap with the public health folks when I read your Infometrics piece in the Press and got rather annoyed.

]]>
By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/04/15/smoking-preferences-and-internalities/#comment-18980 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 02:01:23 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3592#comment-18980 @Eric Crampton

I believe our arguments regarded externalities through the tax system – not “internalities”. I’m not much of a fan of taxes that are justified by hyperbolic discounting myself – I have a cognitive bias against them I guess 😛

]]>
By: Eric Crampton http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/04/15/smoking-preferences-and-internalities/#comment-18978 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 01:34:46 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3592#comment-18978 Whatever your prior estimate was of the desirability of smoking taxes or regulations as a solution to internalities, your estimate of said desirability ought go down as consequence of the study.

I’ve never put much stock in the idea that government ought regulate or tax to rectify internalities: folks have way too many ways of self-regulating for such things; evidence that they choose not to I take as evidence of a meta-preference not to change their behaviour rather than as evidence that they have conflicting homunculi.

Of course, I’ve scrapped a bit with Matt about this before :>

]]>
By: Will de Cleene http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/04/15/smoking-preferences-and-internalities/#comment-18977 Wed, 15 Apr 2009 00:17:18 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3592#comment-18977 I tend to find ex-smokers about as hyperbolically challenged as born again Christians.

]]>
By: rauparaha http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/04/15/smoking-preferences-and-internalities/#comment-18973 Tue, 14 Apr 2009 23:48:08 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3592#comment-18973 @insider
It is true that economists (on this blog at least) tend to prefer the boringly precise to the theatrical.

It is exactly what you guess: it refers to the shape of the curve that the discount factor makes over time. However, most of the time, when people refer to hyperbolic discounting, they don’t actually use hyperbolic curves because it is too mathematically complex.

]]>
By: insider http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/04/15/smoking-preferences-and-internalities/#comment-18972 Tue, 14 Apr 2009 23:28:31 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3592#comment-18972 this is why I’m not an economist, when you said discount hyperbolically I thought you meant they disregard the risk in an exaggerated Italianate style – “it will NEVER happen to me!!!!”. I never thought of those hyperbolic curves we used to make on blocks of wood out of wool and nails.

]]>
By: rauparaha http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/04/15/smoking-preferences-and-internalities/#comment-18971 Tue, 14 Apr 2009 23:16:19 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3592#comment-18971 I guess I should have framed this better. We know that people smoke because they want to. That’s not a revelation. What economists want to know is how they can explain smoking and addiction using their models of behaviour. You can say “oh, it’s just that people are different” but different in what way?

One popular way to model it is to say that people discount hyperbolically. Essentially that means that their decision will change over time: they’ll want to quit in future, but when it comes time to quit they’ll put off quitting again. That’s used as a way to reconcile the fact that smokers constantly try to quit with the observation that they rarely do. Hyperbolic discounting also helps to explain a lot of phemonena that we observe and is supported by experimental evidence.

Of course, not everyone smokes. So usually we’d say that some people just like smoking more than others, but this study gives us more information. It tells us that people who smoke actually value the future costs of smoking less, too. Knowing more about how smokers make decisions helps inform any smoking policy that we may wish to advocate by giving our models of smoking richer detail.

I hope that kinda helps explain why this result is interesting 🙂

]]>
By: insider http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/04/15/smoking-preferences-and-internalities/#comment-18970 Tue, 14 Apr 2009 23:05:15 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3592#comment-18970 @Will de Cleene
Or “Can’t we get you on Mastermind, Sybil? Next contestant, Mrs. Sybil Fawlty from Torquay. Specialist subject – the bleeding obvious.”

Is this hyperbolic discounting? “it’ll never happen to me” and “I’m in control and can give up any time I want”.

]]>
By: Will de Cleene http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/04/15/smoking-preferences-and-internalities/#comment-18966 Tue, 14 Apr 2009 21:57:45 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3592#comment-18966 I thought this study was a case of obvious observation. As Billy Connolly once noted, the Quit Smoking propaganda goes on about smoking knocking five years off your life. But it’s not five years, for example, in your 20s. No, it’s another five years after 74 or something.

Not everyone subscribes to the Vulcan dogma of living long and prospering.

]]>