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Comments on: Is NZ fiscal stimulus lower than the rest of the world? http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/05/06/is-nz-fiscal-stimulus-lower-than-the-rest-of-the-world/ The Visible Hand in Economics Wed, 06 May 2009 05:02:12 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.4 By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/05/06/is-nz-fiscal-stimulus-lower-than-the-rest-of-the-world/#comment-19554 Wed, 06 May 2009 05:02:12 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3779#comment-19554 “I don’t think the National Government was looking for a balanced budget in the short-term prior to the crisis hitting, so I’m not convinced that they’ve held spending above what they would have (in the immediate term)”

In practical terms that is true – and that is why economists expected interest rates to be so high. If the government was going to be irresponsible and blow its budget interest rates need to be high to get the rest of us to save.

Then the crisis happened 😛

Personally I think the OECD mistake came from excluding the other tax cuts – not including ours. I don’t see the point at looking at “stimulus ex stimulus we don’t like ” 🙂

To be clear, I do see your point though – I’m just unimpressed with the OECD for the exclusion

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By: Gareth http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/05/06/is-nz-fiscal-stimulus-lower-than-the-rest-of-the-world/#comment-19553 Wed, 06 May 2009 04:27:32 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3779#comment-19553 Thanks for hosting the discussion by the way, good to have some figures and stated assumptions to work from.

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By: Gareth http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/05/06/is-nz-fiscal-stimulus-lower-than-the-rest-of-the-world/#comment-19552 Wed, 06 May 2009 04:26:34 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3779#comment-19552 Of course, this argument may change in a few weeks once the “Black Budget” is reported if the expected spending cuts are to come. But even then, I don’t think the National Government was looking for a balanced budget in the short-term prior to the crisis hitting, so I’m not convinced that they’ve held spending above what they would have (in the immediate term).

Dunno, I’m no weird-thinking economist ( 😛 ) but I don’t feel that our tax cuts (or resulting overall fiscal position) can be currently be considered a direct response to the crisis like the OECD has painted it.

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/05/06/is-nz-fiscal-stimulus-lower-than-the-rest-of-the-world/#comment-19550 Wed, 06 May 2009 04:17:51 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3779#comment-19550 @Gareth

An accidential stimulus is still a stimulus 🙂

More seriously though, if the government realised that the economy was smaller but knew that unemployment wasn’t going to rise, they would have had to make a choice between cutting spending or their tax cuts – and they would have done a bit of both.

However, given events they kept a lot of the spending – that in itself could be called “a stimulus”. It is a weird way of thinking about it – but it is definitely how economists will be looking at it.

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By: Gareth http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/05/06/is-nz-fiscal-stimulus-lower-than-the-rest-of-the-world/#comment-19548 Wed, 06 May 2009 04:12:59 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3779#comment-19548 Ah yes, I follow. I’ve never seen any indication from the Govt that this was their intent of course, but mysterious ways etc etc…

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/05/06/is-nz-fiscal-stimulus-lower-than-the-rest-of-the-world/#comment-19545 Wed, 06 May 2009 04:05:57 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3779#comment-19545 @Gareth

But …

you could say that not cutting spending when the government realised that the books didn’t balance was a response to the crisis.

Now if this is the justification for including our cuts as stimulus I think the OECD should have included the tax cuts for those other countries as well! However, it is possible to frame it this way.

In this case the tax cut is “structural” but not cutting spending (which is the flip side) is a temporary stimulus in the face of a crisis 🙂

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By: Gareth http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/05/06/is-nz-fiscal-stimulus-lower-than-the-rest-of-the-world/#comment-19544 Wed, 06 May 2009 03:38:24 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3779#comment-19544 @Matt Nolan
Yeah, very good point.
I certainly think they are stimulus, just not stimulus as a response to the “crisis”

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/05/06/is-nz-fiscal-stimulus-lower-than-the-rest-of-the-world/#comment-19543 Wed, 06 May 2009 03:35:21 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3779#comment-19543 @Gareth

I agree that National wants a structural decrease in taxes. However there is another way to look at it:

National cut taxes and didn’t cut spending – that non-cut in spending could then be viewed as a “stimulus”, as over the medium term they will have to have a lower path for spending in order to sustain lower taxes.

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By: Around and About « The Inquiring Mind http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/05/06/is-nz-fiscal-stimulus-lower-than-the-rest-of-the-world/#comment-19541 Wed, 06 May 2009 03:26:39 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3779#comment-19541 […] Matt Nolan at TVHE has some data on the size of the NZ stimulus. This debunks some of the ill informed ‘information’ propounded by The Standard and No Right Turn. The thread is well wroth a look. […]

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By: U bent verantwoordelijk voor de manier waarop u Leeftijd | Joint Specialist http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/05/06/is-nz-fiscal-stimulus-lower-than-the-rest-of-the-world/#comment-19540 Wed, 06 May 2009 03:23:26 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3779#comment-19540 […] TVHE » Is NZ fiscal stimulus lower than the rest of the world? […]

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