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Comments on: How dare they compete! http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/05/07/how-dare-they-compete/ The Visible Hand in Economics Sun, 10 May 2009 07:18:35 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.4 By: goonix http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/05/07/how-dare-they-compete/#comment-19612 Sun, 10 May 2009 07:18:35 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3791#comment-19612 @Jak
Thanks very much for that, if you are truly from Glengarry. Surely that is your point of difference, not price.

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By: Dismal Soyanz http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/05/07/how-dare-they-compete/#comment-19611 Sun, 10 May 2009 05:01:49 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3791#comment-19611 @ Steve

But isn’t that simply an ongoing subsidisy from food to drink? Doesn’t that then take it out of the realm of “true” predatory pricing. Also, is there really an “extra” margin on food – i.e. do they set the margin on food higher to compensate for the loss on alcohol? Or do they rely on volume?

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By: Jak http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/05/07/how-dare-they-compete/#comment-19610 Sun, 10 May 2009 00:30:11 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3791#comment-19610 I have been watching this discussion unfold and it is interesting to see how a jounalists attempt to create a story damning lost leading practices of supermarkets as contributing to our nations drinking problems sparking up what I would like to say are some very knowledgeble repies on Market forecs and pricing. Matt has picked up on the journalist misconstruing what Liz Wheadon has said about “forcing” Glengarry to offer more variety and customer service where actually his has always been the foundation of what our business is built on. Lost Leaders are rare. It’s the Wine producers and suppliers who are dropping their pants and we will see the results of this over time I an sure. Steve is correct regarding the purchasing power giving huge advantages to Supermarkets and therefore making it possible for them to sell products lower than traditional retailers can even buy it for. That’s Life! Traditional retailers must look for points of difference and for us it is superior products, niche products wider range and most importantly knowledgeble stuff to provide that very important customer service. As well we support the smaller artisan producers who can not afford to or do not have enough to supply supermarkets. It is interesting to note that both supermarkets moved together in saying they will not do Loss Lead on liquor as this shows the insignifacance of it in the debate.They will always command the price position. Now breifly I would like to add that the real issue of drinking abuse in our society needs be addressed through the community and our attitudes to alcohol, some say that taxation of RTD’s and Alcopops is the answer some say the drinking age but ultimately it has to start with a respect for drinking with moderation and responsibility. The arguement for Wine in supermarkets was originally based on this with Wine (and Beer) being seen as a natural and sociable accompaniment for food to be consumed at home.
Thanks for the Market Forces explanations of pricing and by the way it is Liquorland that was sold to Foodstuffs by DB.

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By: steve http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/05/07/how-dare-they-compete/#comment-19597 Fri, 08 May 2009 01:42:56 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3791#comment-19597 @Dismal Soyanz
not necessarily, if the additional margins they gain on food justify the discount on wine, they don’t need to increase prices on wine by that much of a significant ammount to pay off those discounts. they simply need to keep it slightly below the contestable price. plus with their duopsony (i don’t know the 2 firm version of a monopsony) they can source it pretty cheap and therefore still make a large margin.

it is abuse of significant market power.

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By: steve http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/05/07/how-dare-they-compete/#comment-19596 Fri, 08 May 2009 01:40:18 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3791#comment-19596 yes, you could also argue for liquor outlets that because or the restriction on spirits, liquor outlets have some market power, and can price wine competitively, and make higher margins on restricted products like spirits.

@ matt

liquor outlets weren’t making any money, hence we saw progressives buy liquor king (i think it was that chain), and they are certainly looking at other liquor acquisitions as liquor outlets are strugging to compete with supermarkets.

On the otherhand what we are seeing now might be because the predatory pricing strategy has failed as the market has become more contestable than when the strategy of discounting wine started. Dairy’s often sell wine now as a competitive fringe, and do quite well.

Alternatively, maybe they have been successful and have now reached a reasonalbe outcome. perhaps they realise now they can’t price most of them out of the market, but they have priced low enough to become the dominant players and now its time to increase prices again. In terms of wine and beer, what we have now is a cozy duopoly with a competitive fringe from dairy’s and liquor stores.

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By: Paul Sharp http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/05/07/how-dare-they-compete/#comment-19593 Thu, 07 May 2009 22:16:18 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3791#comment-19593 Slightly off your topic but I think relevant is that they (the supermarkets) are only allowed to compete in the wine and beer segments whilst not in spirits, RTD’s or fortified wines or weak spirits. If they are fit to sell beer and wine why not the others? If they are not fit to sell spirits etc, why are they allowed to sell beer and wine? Does this not favor wine and beer producers in that they have access to additional sales outlets?

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By: ben http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/05/07/how-dare-they-compete/#comment-19592 Thu, 07 May 2009 22:07:12 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3791#comment-19592 This article nicely shows

1. producers are no fans of competition – in fact they despise it

2. why competition matters for consumers

The Left think of the pro-competition reforms of the 1980s and 1990s as being producer-friendly. Nuh uh.

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By: Dismal Soyanz http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/05/07/how-dare-they-compete/#comment-19591 Thu, 07 May 2009 20:07:26 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3791#comment-19591 Isn’t there a time consistency problem with the concept of predatory pricing? If a company prices low to force out competitors but then raises its prices later (presumably to a price where it has a huge economic rent, sufficient to cover the cost of the earlier low pricing plus make profit) then it is again subject to the threat of competition. Hence if the market is contestable the threat of predatory pricing suffers froma lack of credibility.

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By: Since Women Have Inferior Driving Skills Compared To Men Should They Pay More For Car Insurance? | Auto Comparisons | Compare Auto Information http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/05/07/how-dare-they-compete/#comment-19589 Thu, 07 May 2009 15:12:08 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3791#comment-19589 […] TVHE » How dare they compete! […]

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/05/07/how-dare-they-compete/#comment-19581 Thu, 07 May 2009 02:09:45 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3791#comment-19581 @steve

Indeed very true.

If this is the case though we should have seen supermarkets start in increase prices by now surely? As the purpose of predatory pricing is to reduce competition so as to increase prices in the future.

As you say – the market is probably fairly contestable (as are most retail subsectors) so this explanation probably wouldn’t roll 🙂

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