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Comments on: When numbers fail http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/05/25/when-numbers-fail/ The Visible Hand in Economics Tue, 26 May 2009 02:22:27 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.4 By: rauparaha http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/05/25/when-numbers-fail/#comment-19911 Tue, 26 May 2009 02:22:27 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3880#comment-19911 @Matt Nolan
Haha, yes, I failed to consider that Easterly may have meant a wise, capable leader who has no care for the success of his nation. Given the alternative interpretations I guess that’s no more implausible than any other reading 😛

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By: Eric Crampton http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/05/25/when-numbers-fail/#comment-19910 Tue, 26 May 2009 01:12:37 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3880#comment-19910 I actually have an article on that last point arguing that to the extent that the calculation problem makes planning more difficult, it improved the lives of folks under Stalin. :>

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/05/25/when-numbers-fail/#comment-19909 Tue, 26 May 2009 00:04:54 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3880#comment-19909 @rauparaha

“I think any question in which you ask ‘is good stuff more likely with smart leaders’ is going to produce an obvious answer.”

Not necessarily – if you think that government is always and everywhere interested in their own wellbeing and not that of society then you may want dumber leaders 🙂

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/05/25/when-numbers-fail/#comment-19908 Tue, 26 May 2009 00:03:14 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3880#comment-19908 I think it is possible to read the question as saying – do you think it is more likely that a country succeeds at economic development when they have wise and capable leadership. As I think it is possible to read the second question as “when the country has wise and capable leadership will it succeed at economic growth”.

If this is the case it is looking at only a subset and asking if the probability of economic growth is greater in this subset than in every possible state of the world.

Now I can also read it the way you guys are saying it – which implies to me that the problem is that the question is written a bit ambiguously.

If the question said “a country succeeds at economic development AND HAS wise and capable leadership” instead of with a I would definitely read it the same way you guys have – but the “with a” statement points me to this being a question about the probability in a specific state (namely that the leadership is hot) vs the probability in all states of the world.

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By: Eric Crampton http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/05/25/when-numbers-fail/#comment-19907 Tue, 26 May 2009 00:02:18 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3880#comment-19907 My bet: Easterly’s just checking whether his readers are familiar with the conjunction fallacy.

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By: What Are The Symptoms When An Ovarian Cyst Dissolves? | Symptoms and Cures of Ovarian Cyst http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/05/25/when-numbers-fail/#comment-19903 Mon, 25 May 2009 20:34:17 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3880#comment-19903 […] TVHE » When numbers fail […]

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By: Eric Crampton http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/05/25/when-numbers-fail/#comment-19901 Mon, 25 May 2009 10:02:20 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3880#comment-19901 I’m with Rauparaha. The first is an unconditional, the second conditional.

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By: rauparaha http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/05/25/when-numbers-fail/#comment-19897 Mon, 25 May 2009 06:24:12 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3880#comment-19897 @ben
Hmmmm, I’m not convinced of that interpretation for two reasons:

1) Option 2 contains a specific reference to leadership while option 1 has none. If a reference were intended then why include it in one but not the other.

2) I think any question in which you ask ‘is good stuff more likely with smart leaders’ is going to produce an obvious answer.

I can accept that Easterly wrote a quick blog post and didn’t think too hard about his phrasing of the question, so anything plausible is possible. However, whichever way you interpret it I doubt the answer will be either enlightening or interesting.

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By: ben http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/05/25/when-numbers-fail/#comment-19896 Mon, 25 May 2009 06:15:37 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3880#comment-19896 @rauparaha

Rauparaha, you take the same formulation as Crampton on AntiDismal, but I disagree with you both.

On my reading Option 1 contains an implicit reference to average leadership.

This reading leads to the intuitively plausible (to me) possibility that wise and capable leadership reduces the likelihood of economic growth.

Under your formulation, that is impossible.

On my reading, the correct comparison is between:

1) P(succeed | average leader (or random leader, take your pick)); or
2) P(succeed | wise leader)

Since wise and capable is not defined wrt economic development, its possible there is a negative relationship between the two. It took some seriously unwise leadership to produce Magna Carta, and that turned out to be a ripper.

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By: rauparaha http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2009/05/25/when-numbers-fail/#comment-19892 Mon, 25 May 2009 03:00:43 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=3880#comment-19892 @Dave
The way I interpret the question it doesn’t matter. I read the options as
1) P(succeed) | wise) + P(succeed | not wise)
2) P(succeed | wise)
so
P(1) >= P(2) and the equals bit requires a zero probability of success without wise leadership, which is implausible so I left it out.

If you read the first option as P(succeed | not wise) then you’re right, but then I think the question would be very badly phrased.

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