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Comments on: Technology: Dystopia or utopia? http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/02/16/technology-dystopia-or-utopia/ The Visible Hand in Economics Tue, 09 Mar 2010 21:04:18 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.4 By: wall hack http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/02/16/technology-dystopia-or-utopia/#comment-23223 Tue, 09 Mar 2010 21:04:18 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=4768#comment-23223 But, even stating that this is a possibility, and taking the conditions that cause this possibility is given, we can make an argument as to why this isn’t a bad thing.

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By: PhillipFrank http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/02/16/technology-dystopia-or-utopia/#comment-23203 Fri, 05 Mar 2010 10:25:36 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=4768#comment-23203 A situation where we have “a legion of unemployed” rather than “a legion of jobless, but perfectly satiated individuals” will not occur when there is capitalistic society and disparity in capital between individuals and capitalistic society. The result of this disparity will drive wages down as the demand for labour drops until wages equal capital costs.

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By: Lex http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/02/16/technology-dystopia-or-utopia/#comment-23197 Thu, 04 Mar 2010 15:05:39 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=4768#comment-23197 But capital does enslave people, all the time!

On another note – the idea that technology will make people unemployed is a false one. It was the philosophy of the luddites of the 19th century – but what happens is that the ones who make a lot of money with technology find new ways to spend their money, and the labour force is shifted towards new leisure industries etc.

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By: Phil Sage (sagenz) http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/02/16/technology-dystopia-or-utopia/#comment-23050 Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:49:39 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=4768#comment-23050 #6 I read in the last few days that one in five US men between age of 25-49 does not have a job. Not all of these people are registered as unemployed but they must have sufficient income to live.

I could readily see a steady shift to taxation on capital to fund the ever increasing numbers of non diligent through the Negative income tax above. Manufacturing is hollowing out in the developed west. design remains. Services like call centres and administration are being out sourced to developing world.

It will not be too many decades until what remains is those services where human face to face interaction is the preferred method such as restaurants and retail, high end design and maintenance.

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By: ипотпал http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/02/16/technology-dystopia-or-utopia/#comment-23043 Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:23:28 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=4768#comment-23043 there si no way for this to happen. How do you think the governments will react to such a situation with say 60% unemployment. If they don’t come up with solutions they will be forced to step down by the people who had elected them, so I am not afraid of such a future

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By: Did you see the one about . . . « Homepaddock http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/02/16/technology-dystopia-or-utopia/#comment-23039 Wed, 17 Feb 2010 00:27:54 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=4768#comment-23039 […] Technology dystopia or utopia – The Visible Hand on technology and labour. […]

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/02/16/technology-dystopia-or-utopia/#comment-23024 Mon, 15 Feb 2010 20:01:29 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=4768#comment-23024 @ben

I agree that it hasn’t (although one way to view the Great Depression and preceding recessions is through the lens of “positive supply shocks” that temporarily reduced demand for labour). I also agree that this point indicates that the fear may be overblown.

But, even stating that this is a possibility, and taking the conditions that cause this possibility is given, we can make an argument as to why this isn’t a bad thing.

Fundamentally, having to work is a COST – if people don’t have to work and we get the same produce this is a good thing. The only problem is, without a functioning market for labour we probably get a poor allocation of resources compared to the current situation.

Furthermore, even with labour demand remaining, if greater captial does one day reduce the marginal product of labour (which is possible) we get a situation where wages falls while production rises – this may not be seen as welfare maximising.

As we know, in such a situation the government could transfer resources to make this change “pareto superior”. The best way for this to happen would be through Friedman’s idea of a negative income tax (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_income_tax). This ensures that workers will be indifferent, and that technological improvement would be always pareto superior. Excellent.

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By: ben http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/02/16/technology-dystopia-or-utopia/#comment-23023 Mon, 15 Feb 2010 19:54:54 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=4768#comment-23023 I think there’s a more fundamental point to be made: historically there is no long run relationship between unemployment and capital accumulation, so your correspondents have a model that is broken. It isn’t clear why capital accumulation from here forward should start producing unemployment – it hasn’t until now.

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/02/16/technology-dystopia-or-utopia/#comment-23021 Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:31:39 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=4768#comment-23021 @Phil Sage (sagenz)

That is also very much a possibility – as we have something that is scarce and requires labour.

@Phil Sage (sagenz)

If only 😀

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By: Phil Sage (sagenz) http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/02/16/technology-dystopia-or-utopia/#comment-23020 Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:28:52 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=4768#comment-23020 btw I just noticed that little [translate] link under your posts. Is that to translate into “plain English”? 😉

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