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Comments on: Three open economies walk into a bar … http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/03/16/three-open-economies-walk-into-a-bar/ The Visible Hand in Economics Fri, 19 Mar 2010 20:49:02 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.4 By: Europe’s bruised economies search for way forward | CheapPlanet.info http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/03/16/three-open-economies-walk-into-a-bar/#comment-23342 Fri, 19 Mar 2010 20:49:02 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=4802#comment-23342 […] TVHE » Three open economies walk into a bar … […]

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/03/16/three-open-economies-walk-into-a-bar/#comment-23327 Thu, 18 Mar 2010 18:16:46 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=4802#comment-23327 @Andrew Coleman

“I shan’t be so agreeable”

Excellent 😀

“suggesting that the much faster rate of increase of non-tradeables prices in NZ is not due to peculiarly local factors – it is due to more global, or at least Australasian factors”

Of course the labour markets and general political settings in both countries will share distinct similarities. I suspect that these two would be the major drivers of non-tradable price growth.

“The key to getting inflation down is not to engineer a smaller rate of relative price shift”

I completely agree – the relative price movement is structural and not of concern for monetary policy directly. I think the Bank believes that is what it is doing fundamentally – as the headline rate does track marginally within the band 😉

My main concern is how this functions in the face of a “shock”. Non-tradable price growth is invariably “stickier” than tradable price growth, so if conditions change sufficiently overseas and we begin to import inflation it will be extremely costly to get the non-tradable rate down. Surely in this case it would be better to ere on the side of caution with the headline target in order to ensure that non-tradable growth is weaker.

“Incidentally, how long do you think it will take before someone tries to sue the government and the Reserve Bank because the policy target agreement is not consistent with section 8 of the Reserve Bank Act”

The same argument will appear that always appears – CPI growth overstates “inflation” due to measurement issues and improvements in quality that aren’t captured. As a result, a target of “2%” gives us “price stability for a given level of quality”.

It would be interesting to see some actual work on this though. Is 2% the right number? Is it even the implicit inflation target anymore 😛

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By: Andrew Coleman http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/03/16/three-open-economies-walk-into-a-bar/#comment-23326 Thu, 18 Mar 2010 18:03:52 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=4802#comment-23326 I shan’t be so agreeable. In work that was presented in the 2007 RB Bulletin, I examined the change in prices in NZ and Australia, sector by sector, over horizons from 2 – 12 years. This clearly shows that in the medium term sectors which have higher than average rates of price change in NZ are the same sectors in Australia, suggesting that the much faster rate of increase of non-tradeables prices in NZ is not due to peculiarly local factors – it is due to more global, or at least Australasian factors. The correlation is considerably higher for tradeable goods and service than for non-tradeable goods and services, but it is high in both cases. (The graphs in the article clearly show this point.)

According to Statistics New Zealand, average non-tradable prices increased by 63 per cent in the fifteen years to June 2006, or 3.3 per cent per year, while average tradable prices increased by only 16 per cent, or 1.0 per cent per year. This obviously reflects a large relative price movement – but one that is almost the same as in Australia. The key to getting inflation down is not to engineer a smaller rate of relative price shift, say by reducing non-tradeable price increases from 63% to 50% while keeping tradeable price movements at 16%. The key is getting both numbers smaller : say 53% and 6% respectively. Only in that way will the value of the dollar be preserved from the evils of “low” inflation.

Incidentally, how long do you think it will take before someone tries to sue the government and the Reserve Bank because the policy target agreement is not consistent with section 8 of the Reserve Bank Act (1989)- that the primary goal of the bank is to achieve stability in the general level of prices? Over a typical 80 year lifetime, 2% inflation implied a 5-fold increase in prices, and it is stretching the language to think that this is consistent with “stability in the general level of prices”. Ever since returning to NZ I have been bemused that the Minister of Finance (s) have been able to sign off the PTA with neary a protest that it is probably not legal. But, not having any legal expertise, I wouldn’t even know how to begin a high court injunction (or whatever) to question whether it is actually legal to have a PTA of 1-3% in the medium term, without changing section 8 of the Act.

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/03/16/three-open-economies-walk-into-a-bar/#comment-23324 Thu, 18 Mar 2010 08:56:42 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=4802#comment-23324 @Nick Rowe

@Eric Crampton

Our high cash rate in the past didn’t necessarily mean high interest rates – we are a tiny open economy, our interest rates were still very determined by the world interest rate. In the end though, our interest rates did get to high levels – albeit not as high as the cash rate differential would suggest

The increase in our debt levels has seemed quite unsustainable. I don’t know of an economist who would expect us to go back to our pre-crisis trend, solely on the basis of this.

This cycle, New Zealand’s neutral is expected to run in line with Australia’s – even though the implied TOT boost from spot prices for NZ is a lot higher (we are at pre-crisis spot levels, Aussies have only recovered about 30%). According to the RBNZ the change in the implied OCR stems solely from an unwillingness of foriegn lenders to give us money, not a change in consumer risk preference. As a result, NZ domestic interest rates should head to high “effective” levels.

Ultimately, even with the OCR at 8.25% nominal consumption as a % of GDP remained about average levels. This implies to me that consumer spending was neutral with a very high cash rate, this could mean two things:

1) In NZ the OCR is ineffective at setting interest rate,
2) NZer’s willingness to borrow is high.

It will be a while until we can properly judge which hypothesis is correct given the significant holes in NZ data.

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By: Eric Crampton http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/03/16/three-open-economies-walk-into-a-bar/#comment-23323 Thu, 18 Mar 2010 07:55:42 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=4802#comment-23323 Some of the high rates are just a function of small market/correlated risk problems. But I’ve never seen a fully satisfactory account.

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By: Nick Rowe http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/03/16/three-open-economies-walk-into-a-bar/#comment-23322 Thu, 18 Mar 2010 07:49:09 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=4802#comment-23322 Interesting. I hadn’t known about the NZ drought, or the difficulties with financial markets/institutions. Canada normally has exports and imports around 40% of GDP. Most (around 80%) of our trade is with the US.

I still am surprised at how high NZ’s interest rates need to be to keep inflation on target. We currently have the overnight rate target at 025%, and 5-year closed mortgages around 4.5%.

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/03/16/three-open-economies-walk-into-a-bar/#comment-23306 Wed, 17 Mar 2010 23:53:18 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=4802#comment-23306 @Eric Crampton

Bound to be something wrong when economists agree. At least the RBNZ obviously does not agree with us.

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By: Eric Crampton http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/03/16/three-open-economies-walk-into-a-bar/#comment-23305 Wed, 17 Mar 2010 23:46:53 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=4802#comment-23305 @Matt Nolan
Aren’t we such agreeable people?

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/03/16/three-open-economies-walk-into-a-bar/#comment-23304 Wed, 17 Mar 2010 23:22:27 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=4802#comment-23304 @Eric Crampton

Agreed on all fronts.

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By: Eric Crampton http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/03/16/three-open-economies-walk-into-a-bar/#comment-23303 Wed, 17 Mar 2010 23:19:50 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=4802#comment-23303 So, shy from being far too doveish 05, they might have hesitated a bit longer than they should have in 08. I can buy that. I wouldn’t have seen it at the time, mostly ’cause I didn’t see the credit market problems. But can take that as a hindsight view now. I’d still put more fault on the former problem than the latter – if I recall correctly, Bank of Canada was even talking about raising rates at the time.

Non-tradeable is sticky, sure. That means it’s the one that needs longer term battering down.

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