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Comments on: Drugs and anti-paternalism http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/05/11/drugs-and-anti-paternalism/ The Visible Hand in Economics Wed, 12 May 2010 22:50:26 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.4 By: Laptop Carrying Cases http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/05/11/drugs-and-anti-paternalism/#comment-25143 Wed, 12 May 2010 22:50:26 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=4945#comment-25143 Interesting post & comments. I don’t think governments are too worried about paternalism when they do things like enforce prohibition. Usually they have an ignorant point of view about drugs that is not really based on facts and research. Some of the previous drug smearing campaigns have been so effective that most people don’t truly know how bad any drugs really are. It is assumed that since it is illegal it must be some evil thing.

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/05/11/drugs-and-anti-paternalism/#comment-25121 Wed, 12 May 2010 02:37:16 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=4945#comment-25121 @Eric Crampton

That explains why he anti-alcohol – he’d also have to avoid beans and curry I guess.

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By: Eric Crampton http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/05/11/drugs-and-anti-paternalism/#comment-25120 Wed, 12 May 2010 02:31:52 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=4945#comment-25120 What I love is that he refutes paternalism examples with an example using state as parent.

Guy’s got a good press agent though – he can barely break wind without it being on the National Radio hourly news update.

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/05/11/drugs-and-anti-paternalism/#comment-25119 Wed, 12 May 2010 02:28:53 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=4945#comment-25119 @Eric Crampton

Excellent, thanks 🙂

“Highly restrictive “nanny state” families are prone to producing emotionally stunted children with no initiative, but laissez-fair “ninny state” families with no clear rules or regulations often produce out-of-control children. The answer, of course, lies in the middle ground”

What I love about that is the fact that it seems to imply that the state is the primary determinant of our personalities – I like to think a bit more of my personality was inherent tbh.

“And I do love the Raoul Duke at the Police Convention scene”

It is f’ing brilliant 😀

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By: Eric Crampton http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/05/11/drugs-and-anti-paternalism/#comment-25118 Wed, 12 May 2010 02:23:24 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=4945#comment-25118 @Matt: I could find some reason to call you a commie for your piece, if you’d really like. I’d start by saying that your last three paragraphs aren’t all THAT far from what Doug Sellman wrote a while back:

Which state – “ninny” or “nanny” – is likely to encourage individual responsibility? The answer is neither. Highly restrictive “nanny state” families are prone to producing emotionally stunted children with no initiative, but laissez-fair “ninny state” families with no clear rules or regulations often produce out-of-control children. The answer, of course, lies in the middle ground.

There. You’ve been flamed.

And I do love the Raoul Duke at the Police Convention scene….

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/05/11/drugs-and-anti-paternalism/#comment-25107 Tue, 11 May 2010 19:31:28 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=4945#comment-25107 @agnitio

Adolf got flamed because someone doesn’t understand probabilities and wanted to blame him and the ACT party.

We are supposed to attempt to get flamed, which is why I’m disappointed with the lack of anger from my article. Hell, even my mum agreed with it 😛

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/05/11/drugs-and-anti-paternalism/#comment-25106 Tue, 11 May 2010 19:30:38 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=4945#comment-25106 @EbolaCola

Glad to see you agree 🙂

I agree that the facts make it seem that way. But I think many of these people don’t see the facts, they have some prior belief where people taking a drug are turning around raping and murdering everyone (such as the description given by the anti-drug people in Fear and Loathing in Los Vegas).

In essence, it is because attitudes and popular information drive that – I believe it is Will Wilkinson saying that we should all come out and try to normalise drugs, as a way to get them treated right.

However, the sheer focus on harm minimisation implies that even normalisation won’t be enough. Harm minimisation as a policy really implies that no-one should do anything – so if you apply it to any single product you are going to recommend excessive controls. *Sigh*

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By: agnitio http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/05/11/drugs-and-anti-paternalism/#comment-25071 Tue, 11 May 2010 05:01:25 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=4945#comment-25071

goonix :

@Matt Nolan

You don’t want to get flamed in the letters to the editor like your co-worker, that’s for sure. :D

Who got flamed and for saying what? Exciting:)

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By: EbolaCola http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/05/11/drugs-and-anti-paternalism/#comment-25070 Tue, 11 May 2010 04:49:10 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=4945#comment-25070 i am a paternalist but my fellow paternalists are stupid and evil, the inconsistent treatment of alcohol, tobacco and other drugs does not minimize harm by anyone’s definition. No teenage cannabis users are dying in their sleep…

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/05/11/drugs-and-anti-paternalism/#comment-25069 Tue, 11 May 2010 04:21:52 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=4945#comment-25069 @goonix

I do want to get flamed – but I know paternalists are only being so protective because they care, not because they are stupid or evil. And so I don’t see the point of being a bully, the goal should instead be to make them think about what they are saying and what is really best for everyone out there.

As I’ve said before (http://offsettingbehaviour.blogspot.com/2010/05/gilbert-and-sullivan-on-politics-of.html#comments ) – its like the song father and son. Paternalists see it as saying that the issue is with the old guy not getting his message through, more liberal (UK sense) people see the problem as the old guy not giving the young guy an opportunity to experience and learn and live.

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