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Comments on: The pill, moral relativism, and economics http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/05/12/the-pill-moral-relativism-and-economics/ The Visible Hand in Economics Mon, 17 May 2010 21:48:43 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.4 By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/05/12/the-pill-moral-relativism-and-economics/#comment-25199 Mon, 17 May 2010 21:48:43 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=4951#comment-25199 @steve

Fair call for sure. It is always better to use information to come up with comparisons where possible.

However, in the case of the pill I don’t know if we can use revealed preferences – let alone weaker mechanisms like surveys – to come up with a true measure to compare outcomes.

This is always the problem when we have multiple pareto ranked eqm – we can’t even use market mechanisms to figure out value 🙁

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By: steve http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/05/12/the-pill-moral-relativism-and-economics/#comment-25170 Sat, 15 May 2010 05:45:31 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=4951#comment-25170

Matt Nolan :
@steve
“We can’t weight welfare functions, and reach a conclusion, until we make value judgments.”

Basically I was saying those weights can be based on a survey result. Ok fair enough you can call it a value judgement, but it is an imformed value judgement because you are able to see the spectrum of utility functions and can make that judgement based on evidence. i.e. a scientific approach, rather than a judgement.

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/05/12/the-pill-moral-relativism-and-economics/#comment-25154 Thu, 13 May 2010 22:33:09 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=4951#comment-25154 @steve

Economics is always serious business 😉

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/05/12/the-pill-moral-relativism-and-economics/#comment-25153 Thu, 13 May 2010 22:32:55 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=4951#comment-25153 @steve

“but i disagree that an economic approach also has to make a set of value judgements”

We can’t weight welfare functions, and reach a conclusion, until we make value judgments.

Effectively, I see the pill as a state variable – and deciding whether the eqm with the pill available or the eqm without the pill available is preferable relies on two steps:

1) The economic analysis step where we look at how choices and the allocation of resources change – we attempt to do this in a value free way.
2) Introducing value judgments. Given how the allocation of outcomes has changed, we can introduce a welfare function and compare the two eqm, deciding which one is preferable.

It is that division that is so very important.

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By: steve http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/05/12/the-pill-moral-relativism-and-economics/#comment-25146 Thu, 13 May 2010 02:24:37 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=4951#comment-25146 wow didn’t realise I could write so much for such a non-serious topic.

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By: steve http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/05/12/the-pill-moral-relativism-and-economics/#comment-25145 Thu, 13 May 2010 02:22:34 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=4951#comment-25145 I don’t think its based on any specific set of value judgements but on every set of value judgements where these are inputs into every persons’ individual utility function, and this is a broad (probably normal) distribution accross society. There is a factual and a counterfactual. Under each scenario every member of society has a different level of total utility. for some it will be lower with the pill because they prefer that the sexually related social interactions be limited to marriage and they would prefer to avoid the discussion untill mariage is on the table. For others utility will be higher with the pill because they are getting more sex. Then we need to include any externalities (under both scenarios), such as the cost of unplanned pregnancy, the cost of any undesired social interactions that are due to the scenario (eg being pressured into sex or wanting sex but it not happening because of society and the risk of pregnancy), and the cost of “knowing” the world is permiscious when this is against a specific person’s values (while I would be tempted to ignore it, think of this the same as donating to help an endangered species makes you feel good even though you never see the animal). the sum of these utilities and externalities shows us under which scenario we are better off.

Perhaps the value judgement you refer to is more your expectation of the spectrum of utility functions – but surely, if we wanted to research this, we could avoid a value judgement by surveying people on their views of sex, and come up with some sort of model to represent and rank utility?

I agree the article is making a value judgement and these people don’t really know if it is good or bad. but i disagree that an economic approach also has to make a set of value judgements.

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By: Tweets that mention TVHE » The pill, moral relativism, and economics -- Topsy.com http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2010/05/12/the-pill-moral-relativism-and-economics/#comment-25111 Wed, 12 May 2010 00:07:45 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=4951#comment-25111 […] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Matt Nolan. Matt Nolan said: The pill, moral relativism, and economics: http://bit.ly/dBEjPc […]

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