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Comments on: A wager: Price growth of 15% between Dec 10 and Dec 15 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2011/03/25/a-wager-price-growth-of-15-between-dec-10-and-dec-15/ The Visible Hand in Economics Mon, 28 Mar 2011 03:58:45 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.4 By: andrew coleman http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2011/03/25/a-wager-price-growth-of-15-between-dec-10-and-dec-15/#comment-33023 Mon, 28 Mar 2011 03:58:45 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=5830#comment-33023 Hi Matt,
I’m willing to raise my portion of the bet to 16% over 5 years, which exceeds 3% per annum – just as inflation exceeded 3% pa in the five years to December 2007.

But that is only part of the point. In the long term it probably doesn’t matter too much whether inflation in NZ is 15% rather than 16% every five years. What is surprising is that we are so willing to allow for the pretence that a 15.9 percent change in the price level every five years could be interpreted as being consistent with the Reserve Bank achieving its primary function. According to section 8 of the Reserve Bank Act…” The primary function of the Bank is to formulate and implement monetary policy to the economic objective of achieving and maintaining stability in the general level of prices.” and section 9 ….”The minister shall, before appointing, or reappointing, any persons for Governor, fix, in agreement with that person, policy targets for the carrying out by the Bank of its primary function during that person’s term of office, or next term of office, as Governor.”

New Zealand has a minister and a governor who think that so long as the CPI doesn’t increase by more than 15.9 percent every five years, the situation is consistent with the objective of stability in the general level of prices. We have a central bank that has imposed some of the highest real interest rates in the world, and the most steeply inverted yield curve in the world, for the best part of a decade without being able to consistently reduce the inflation rate below 2 percent (so perhaps it is know-how, not willingness). We have a governor and Bank who has presided over a 24.9% increase in the CPI in 8 years. For all I know, we have governor who wears a grey suit because he thinks it’s a close approximation to black. To my mind, somehow, this is not a situation where we should be confident that true stability in the general level of prices is going to be achieved in the next five years; and I am not particularly confident that the Reserve Bank will prevent the CPI from rising by 16 percent. I wish I were.

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2011/03/25/a-wager-price-growth-of-15-between-dec-10-and-dec-15/#comment-33021 Sun, 27 Mar 2011 22:04:38 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=5830#comment-33021 @Miguel Sanchez

Yar, as I said in my follow up comment I agree – as long as the Bank forecasts that it will stay in the band it is following its mandate.

I would ALSO note that nowhere in the post itself did I say this was even a bet about the mandate, just a bet on price level growth. In second comment where I said that was too loose, I agree. Note, that I have been saying that I think the Bank has never violated its stated mandate – both here and in the previous post where this got set. As a result, I am in agreement.

However, this raises a much bigger issue – if the mandate isn’t testable just how credible can it be? The reason I stated that ex-ante this was the only objective bet we could make is because ex-ante its the only objective bet we can make – if the Bank wants inflation expectations anchored within the band, a bet regarding whether they are (ex-ante) expected to remain within their mandate must assume that price level growth will average a level within the band.

IMO, the solution is to come up with a “true” measure of inflation that abstracts from relative price changes – and ensure that this stays at an appropriate level. I would also state that, given this, we would then need to decide BETWEEN an inflation band or a medium term inflation (point) target.

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By: Miguel Sanchez http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2011/03/25/a-wager-price-growth-of-15-between-dec-10-and-dec-15/#comment-33020 Sun, 27 Mar 2011 21:43:19 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=5830#comment-33020 Michael is quite right – this is not a bet on a breach of the mandate, not even ex ante. And he would know, better than any of us 😉

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2011/03/25/a-wager-price-growth-of-15-between-dec-10-and-dec-15/#comment-33019 Sun, 27 Mar 2011 20:17:07 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=5830#comment-33019 @raf

Good man, was worried no-one else believed the mandate would hold 😛

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By: raf http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2011/03/25/a-wager-price-growth-of-15-between-dec-10-and-dec-15/#comment-33008 Sun, 27 Mar 2011 05:58:23 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=5830#comment-33008 I’m with you on this one Matt. Happy to join the bet.

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2011/03/25/a-wager-price-growth-of-15-between-dec-10-and-dec-15/#comment-33001 Sat, 26 Mar 2011 19:46:12 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=5830#comment-33001 “Seems to me that whatever this bet is, it is not on whether or not the RB delivers on its mandate.”

I agree I could easily use and say that the Bank still delivered on its mandate – given that the current mandate really just requires that they forecast they are going to stay within the band.

However, ex-ante the only bet you can make about the mandate MUST assume that ex-post they will stay within the mandate – the reason the sums of money are so low is due to the risks that, even though they follow their mandate (or don’t) there are other corresponding price shocks.

Also, you call 5 years a small period of time – but their mandate is over the medium term (which could be viewed as 5-10 years). As a result, I think the horizon is fair enough.

One thing I find VERY difficult about this time horizon is that they say “our target is over a number of years” and yet “the past is irrelevant” – there is something uncomfortable about this IMO, even though both elements can be justified in of themselves.

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By: Michael Reddell http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2011/03/25/a-wager-price-growth-of-15-between-dec-10-and-dec-15/#comment-32987 Sat, 26 Mar 2011 01:01:23 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=5830#comment-32987 Seems to me that whatever this bet is, it is not on whether or not the RB delivers on its mandate. For a start, 15% increase over 5 years is 2.8% inflation per annum (ie within the 1-3% band, and recall that the midpoint is nowhere mentioned in the PTA). Second, of course, the current PTA has only 18 months more to run; no doubt less if there were to be a change of government. Third, of course, it is quite possible for the one-off price increases the Bank is charged with looking through to be skewed one way or the other on average over a relatively short period like five years.

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By: jaluzele exterioare http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2011/03/25/a-wager-price-growth-of-15-between-dec-10-and-dec-15/#comment-32979 Fri, 25 Mar 2011 14:42:18 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=5830#comment-32979 prices grow, wages decrease, one hell of a economy

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2011/03/25/a-wager-price-growth-of-15-between-dec-10-and-dec-15/#comment-32971 Fri, 25 Mar 2011 01:40:23 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=5830#comment-32971 @Eric Crampton

You’ll be glad to know that you will win the bet if most private sector forecasters are correct – I’m thinking that’s part of the reason I went against it 😉

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By: Eric Crampton http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2011/03/25/a-wager-price-growth-of-15-between-dec-10-and-dec-15/#comment-32970 Fri, 25 Mar 2011 01:31:03 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=5830#comment-32970 I hope I only win by a tiny margin.

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