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Comments on: Time to build state houses? http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2012/11/14/time-to-build-state-houses/ The Visible Hand in Economics Wed, 14 Nov 2012 19:19:00 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.4 By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2012/11/14/time-to-build-state-houses/#comment-40196 Wed, 14 Nov 2012 19:19:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=7737#comment-40196 In reply to Miguel Sanchez.

“Credit is not the problem, and I doubt that Labour is framing it in
those terms. 5-10 years ago credit was flowing like water and there was
still no interest in channelling it towards affordable houses.”

Very true.

“I would imagine Labour is taking one of the angles of the Productivity
Commission, i.e. that land is so expensive that people are obliged to
build large, expensive houses to get their money’s worth.”

Yar, the argument seems a bit weird to me as well – didn’t realise that the capital component of housing was a giffen good 😉

I suspect that people aren’t sure why such large houses are being built, but still want to do something. But without deaingl with the cost of subdivision 😛

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2012/11/14/time-to-build-state-houses/#comment-40195 Wed, 14 Nov 2012 19:11:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=7737#comment-40195 In reply to Eric Crampton.

All very true. Especially the last sentence.

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By: Miguel Sanchez http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2012/11/14/time-to-build-state-houses/#comment-40194 Wed, 14 Nov 2012 09:43:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=7737#comment-40194 Credit is not the problem, and I doubt that Labour is framing it in those terms. 5-10 years ago credit was flowing like water and there was still no interest in channelling it towards affordable houses.
I would imagine Labour is taking one of the angles of the Productivity Commission, i.e. that land is so expensive that people are obliged to build large, expensive houses to get their money’s worth. Even if you buy that (I think it’s completely backwards), I’m not sure that cheap state housing is the best answer. To me it seems to just shift the problem from being expensive to get on the bottom rung of the property ladder, to being expensive to get onto the second rung. If anyone has some figures on mobility rates in and out of state housing then I could be persuaded otherwise.

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By: Eric Crampton http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2012/11/14/time-to-build-state-houses/#comment-40192 Wed, 14 Nov 2012 03:01:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=7737#comment-40192 In reply to Matt Nolan.

Start with sound science. Then think about the rhetorical packaging. Never fudge the science for better rhetoric. But never give the science without thinking about the rhetoric.

And read McClosky.

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2012/11/14/time-to-build-state-houses/#comment-40191 Wed, 14 Nov 2012 02:22:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=7737#comment-40191 In reply to Eric Crampton.

Dirty old politicians.

So if policy is like marketing, do economists need better narrative tools to help inform policy, or are our tools sufficient as narrative devices and the issue is about how we utilise them.

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By: Eric Crampton http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2012/11/14/time-to-build-state-houses/#comment-40190 Wed, 14 Nov 2012 01:55:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=7737#comment-40190 In reply to Matt Nolan.

I’m not saying there’s a good reason. I’m saying Labour could say “for good reason”, nodding and stroking chin as though the reasons were obvious, then going on. When I say “could have spun a better story”, I meant a political argument, not a truth argument.

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2012/11/14/time-to-build-state-houses/#comment-40189 Wed, 14 Nov 2012 01:29:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=7737#comment-40189 In reply to Eric Crampton.

What’s the good reason? And if regulations prevent the properties from going up in certain areas for a good reason, and then the government builds them there, how is that an allocative improvement 😛

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By: Eric Crampton http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2012/11/14/time-to-build-state-houses/#comment-40188 Wed, 14 Nov 2012 01:16:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=7737#comment-40188 In reply to Matt Nolan.

Sure, but Labour could have spun a better story around a second-best constraint – regs there for good reason, blah blah, unfortunate consequence is lack of low-income housing, so address that directly.

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2012/11/14/time-to-build-state-houses/#comment-40187 Tue, 13 Nov 2012 23:36:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=7737#comment-40187 In reply to Eric Crampton.

The second best argument occurred to me – but then I thought it was strange to not deal with policy failure directly.

My post wasn’t intended to say it was a binding constraint per se, but to ask if this was the justification and if there was evidence for it. If I am going to judge the policy, I’d just like to see the evidence for those three points first.

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By: Eric Crampton http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2012/11/14/time-to-build-state-houses/#comment-40186 Tue, 13 Nov 2012 23:16:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=7737#comment-40186 What evidence do we have that the credit market is the binding constraint? I’d have thought that the better argument would have been regs/zoning/stupidity makes private building sufficiently encumbered that we may be stuck with government-building as second-best.

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