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Comments on: Series on tax: Part 2b – let’s experiment with explanations http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2013/05/20/series-on-tax-part-2b-lets-experiment-with-explanations/ The Visible Hand in Economics Wed, 18 Sep 2013 00:17:14 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.4 By: Series on tax: Part 4 – A primer on income taxes | The Dismal Science http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2013/05/20/series-on-tax-part-2b-lets-experiment-with-explanations/#comment-41129 Wed, 12 Jun 2013 00:02:13 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=8682#comment-41129 […] the series on tax I’m popping together.  Here are the blog posts linking to part 1, part 2, part 2b, and part 3.  I would note this will at least be an eight part series, instead of six now, as […]

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By: Series on tax: Part 4 – A primer on income taxes | TVHE http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2013/05/20/series-on-tax-part-2b-lets-experiment-with-explanations/#comment-41114 Mon, 10 Jun 2013 22:50:45 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=8682#comment-41114 […] the series on tax I’m popping together.  Here are the blog posts linking to part 1, part 2, part 2b, and part 3.  I would note this will at least be an eight part series, instead of six now, as […]

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By: A tax by any other name | The Dismal Science http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2013/05/20/series-on-tax-part-2b-lets-experiment-with-explanations/#comment-40987 Mon, 27 May 2013 23:30:27 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=8682#comment-40987 […] bond purchase financing is essentially a tax.  This is something I will get to in part 5 of the tax series I’m popping up at the moment.  I’m only up to part 3 at present (out tomorrow), so the […]

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By: A tax by any other name | TVHE http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2013/05/20/series-on-tax-part-2b-lets-experiment-with-explanations/#comment-40963 Mon, 27 May 2013 01:56:25 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=8682#comment-40963 […] bond purchase financing is essentially a tax.  This is something I will get to in part 5 of the tax series I’m popping up at the moment.  I’m only up to part 3 at present (out tomorrow), so the […]

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2013/05/20/series-on-tax-part-2b-lets-experiment-with-explanations/#comment-40933 Sun, 19 May 2013 21:44:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=8682#comment-40933 In reply to Brennan McDonald.

“I’m enjoying this series Matt.”

Cheers, that’s nice to hear. I’m trying to make something that will be clear for both us economists, and for non-economists, without being a violent misrepresentation. And without just assuming “these are the properties of a tax system we want” as a starting point like most tax things do. We’ll see how it goes 😛

“In terms of analysing the distributional impact of tax changes, I think
we’ve worked ourselves into a corner through having a complex web of
inter-related tax & welfare policies.”

We’ve pinned down the fact that our knowledge of changes can be pretty limited – which is why our analysis is often fairly partial eqm. On top of that, we can’t do real distributional analysis with CGE models for the most part, making this all very difficult. Of course, just like you, I have a preference for at least using the partial eqm logic rather than assuming arbitrary things as politicians and interest groups often do 😉

“For example, the change to building depreciation rules hasn’t been
discussed when it comes to supply side restrictions in the property
market.”

That is a very interesting one. I remember at the time there were a number of economists who liked it because they believed that it would more closely align incentives between owning and renting with fundamentals. However, I’m not really sure this is the point.

We should be looking at rental investment property as an investment – and simply ensuring it is treated in a way consistent with other investment vehicles.

In this context, reducing the depreciation rebate reduces the incentive to invest, which in turn will reduce the rental stock and increase rents.

These things are all well and good, I suspect that one of the issues is that we talk about housing affordability, but we never clearly define what it is 😉

“So for each individual tax policy there are enormous secondary effects
that no one talks about, but our basic model assumptions at least help
us tell a sensible story about what the real distribution “could be”!”

Amen. And this is one of the key reason economists favour flat and broad tax schedules, combined with targeted progressive transfers. There are still unintended consequences, but what we are doing is a bit “clearer”.

The hard thing is that I’ll say to people, “we believe this because we accept that is often insufficient information, or knowledge, to fiddle around with policies”. Then they will look at me blankly and say “but it’s easy”. I get this constantly, and I am sure people mean well, but I’m not sure they appreciate how prices work – and that is the real key to the complication.

“Non-economists want one story to explain *everything* and forget that for complex problems even Occam’s Razor hits a limit.”

This is true. Non-economists often don’t recognise the gap between core and peripheral assumptions as well. That is what I am writing in my NZAE paper this year – a paper that is turning out to have very little point 😛

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By: Brennan McDonald http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2013/05/20/series-on-tax-part-2b-lets-experiment-with-explanations/#comment-40932 Sun, 19 May 2013 21:29:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=8682#comment-40932 I’m enjoying this series Matt.
In terms of analysing the distributional impact of tax changes, I think we’ve worked ourselves into a corner through having a complex web of inter-related tax & welfare policies.
For example, the change to building depreciation rules hasn’t been discussed when it comes to supply side restrictions in the property market.
We know that people can have excessive sensitivity to tax changes in consumption, so they sure can have excessive sensitivity to changes in tax rules. Just think back to the increase in trust retained income after the introduction of the 39c tax rate in 1999.
The ability of Inland Revenue to obtain Taxation Review Authority rulings that clearly exceed Parliament’s intent also introduces enormous uncertainty for firms looking at capital investments financed in non-traditional ways.
So for each individual tax policy there are enormous secondary effects that no one talks about, but our basic model assumptions at least help us tell a sensible story about what the real distribution “could be”!
Non-economists want one story to explain *everything* and forget that for complex problems even Occam’s Razor hits a limit.

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