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Comments on: Low productivity isn’t lazy http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2013/10/07/low-productivity-isnt-lazy/ The Visible Hand in Economics Tue, 08 Oct 2013 05:24:00 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.4 By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2013/10/07/low-productivity-isnt-lazy/#comment-42292 Tue, 08 Oct 2013 05:24:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=10134#comment-42292 In reply to JC.

I suspect population density, and thereby urban design as well, may play quite a big part in it – I think we can sometimes throw a bit much in the culture basket 🙂

Nonetheless, we are going to get to see a whole bunch of research over the next few years!

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By: JC http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2013/10/07/low-productivity-isnt-lazy/#comment-42291 Tue, 08 Oct 2013 05:08:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=10134#comment-42291 I think we have to stratify our businesses by size and/or similar measures to find how productivity goes. If small size generally equals lower productivity then we are most likely talking culture and No 8 wire mentality.

Conversely small size may also give us good innovation in areas of work that we like.. like sailing 🙂

Without knowing too much about the drivers of productivity I suspect that culture and a desire to employ as many bodies as possible is significant in NZ.

JC

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2013/10/07/low-productivity-isnt-lazy/#comment-42284 Mon, 07 Oct 2013 17:16:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=10134#comment-42284 In reply to MillAhab.

Heya, ahh didn’t mean to come off as touche just wanted to raise the point – my masters thesis was about how firms may over hire managers as a form of capacity precommitment, so I’m sympathetic 😉

Indeed, in managerial surveys NZ often comes off quite poorly and lack of competition seems like a fair driver.

My main issues with the managerial explanation stem from measurability (given the types of surveys we rely on) and endogeniety (managerial performance is likely endogenous determined by a number of the other factors behind relatively lower productivity). Atm I find a lack of scale and a lack of competition due to size and distance from market to be the most compelling explanations – and I see managerial performance as endogenously determined by these. Happy to change my view as the evidence appears though 😉

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By: MillAhab http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2013/10/07/low-productivity-isnt-lazy/#comment-42283 Mon, 07 Oct 2013 08:38:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=10134#comment-42283 In reply to Matt Nolan.

Touche, my razor is that NZ firms are not exposed to a significant enough level of competition that would force them to develop the level of managerial competence that they would require if they were to operate successfully in another market.

As I am sure you would agree it generally holds that NZ’s best performing firms are those that successfully compete internationally in markets with low barriers to entry.

We also have a long tail of underachieving firms that in a market such as the US would have likely been out-managed into non-existence some time ago. That is not to say that poorly-manged firms don’t exist in somewhere like the US but that generally ours on a comparative basis are even more poorly managed.

What are your thoughts?

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2013/10/07/low-productivity-isnt-lazy/#comment-42282 Mon, 07 Oct 2013 05:49:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=10134#comment-42282 In reply to MillAhab.

Aha, but for it to be “relatively” poor we need an explanation about why NZ is worse than other countries – not just an explanation of the failings of management in of itself 😉

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By: MillAhab http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2013/10/07/low-productivity-isnt-lazy/#comment-42280 Mon, 07 Oct 2013 02:44:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=10134#comment-42280 If you want to develop a better informed cynicism on the nature of many workplaces and the
idiosyncrasies of the marriage of management, labour, and capital and the resulting productivity outcomes I suggest checking out ‘the Org’ by Tim Sullivan and Ray Fisman:

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-01-08/em-the-org-em-stands-by-the-status-quo-for-business-management

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324581504578235710908551732.html

Q. What do the authors conclude is the cause of poor labour productivity in about 99/100 cases?
A. P!ss poor management which unfortunately in New Zealand we generally have in abundance.
.

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2013/10/07/low-productivity-isnt-lazy/#comment-42279 Mon, 07 Oct 2013 00:48:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=10134#comment-42279 In reply to VMC.

Having a clear interpretation of our moral judgments is important – this is true. But I have not yet met an economist who believes low labour productivity = laziness, the most common ones are “not enough capital”, “poor management”, “distance from market”, and “excessive labour input” (as the marginal product of labour falls – so if we really ramp up hours worked, average productivity will decline).

I am always “discussing” economics with everyone I meet, I’m just lucky some people are willing to tell me what they think 😉

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By: VMC http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2013/10/07/low-productivity-isnt-lazy/#comment-42278 Mon, 07 Oct 2013 00:31:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=10134#comment-42278 In reply to Matt Nolan.

I wonder about the “not what any economist in the universe means” bit. Many economists are rather moralising as I am sure you will know – and language like ‘labour productivity’ suits a moralists, I think. Am glad you have friends who are prepared to challenge you on the language front.

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2013/10/07/low-productivity-isnt-lazy/#comment-42277 Mon, 07 Oct 2013 00:15:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=10134#comment-42277 In reply to VMC.

Language is interesting – when economists say labour productivity they are imagining a cobbs-douglas production function just sitting around. As a result the level of capital, technology, and other forms of labour all have an impact on the marginal product (and the average) of labour.

This is so ingrained that when I think “labour productivity” I usually start thinking about the stock of capital pretty much immediately!

However, in the last couple of years especially, I’ve had a whole number of non-economists say that it makes them feel like they are being attacked for what they do at work – which I’m pretty sure is not what any economist in the universe means! It was nice to see the Productivity Commission get that a cover off on their blog 😉

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By: VMC http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2013/10/07/low-productivity-isnt-lazy/#comment-42276 Mon, 07 Oct 2013 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=10134#comment-42276 You say that economists do not mean people are lazy when they say ‘productivity is low’. But what do they mean when they say ‘labour productivity is low’? If they don’t mean the people who do they work are producing less than they might why put in the word ‘labour’. There are many factors of production, so by emphasising the ‘labour’ word, economists are indeed letting all the other possible causes off the hook. And since most labour get directed by managers (who also provide their tools and equipment, lets start talking about managerial productivity!

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