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Comments on: Beware the seductive simplicity of the Spirit Level http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2014/05/19/beware-the-seductive-simplicity-of-the-spirit-level/ The Visible Hand in Economics Tue, 14 Jun 2022 20:11:02 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.4 By: Briefly on The Nation | Ellipsister http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2014/05/19/beware-the-seductive-simplicity-of-the-spirit-level/#comment-43225 Sat, 24 May 2014 00:10:25 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=11396#comment-43225 […] inequality from an economics perspective in a language that non-economists can easily digest. Among economists, this is a highly contentious work, but introducing it into the mainstream discussion, allows […]

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2014/05/19/beware-the-seductive-simplicity-of-the-spirit-level/#comment-43211 Wed, 21 May 2014 06:21:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=11396#comment-43211 In reply to Kimble.

I have critiqued the SL repeatedly to be honest, both on the blog and in speaking engagements. There comes a point though when people don’t care – they don’t care about your argument so it doesn’t matter! As a result, and also given economists can also have ideological biases, I can’t see us doing any cool action movie hero stuff 😉

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By: Kimble http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2014/05/19/beware-the-seductive-simplicity-of-the-spirit-level/#comment-43206 Tue, 20 May 2014 21:46:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=11396#comment-43206 In reply to Matt Nolan.

Well that’s the thing about junk science and junk economists. You only have to critique them once and then they disappear completely and never double down on their marketing and drown the criticism in even more junk science.

The matter is only dealt with when these fraudsters could not even get a gig on Campbell Live.

Picture the hero economist coolly walking away from the issue while their opponents explode in the background, Michael Bay style.

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2014/05/19/beware-the-seductive-simplicity-of-the-spirit-level/#comment-43205 Tue, 20 May 2014 19:55:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=11396#comment-43205 In reply to Kimble.

Fair point, very fair point. Oversimplification in our description of an issue can act as misinformation for the public – it is especially perverse when it is meant to obfuscate trade-offs, and pretend that transfers to the middle classes will improve outcomes for the poor (trickle-down mark II 😉 ).

Of course, I think I’ve been relatively vocal in my criticism of the book – as have a number of other economists. Going much further would be unnecessarily unreasonable.

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2014/05/19/beware-the-seductive-simplicity-of-the-spirit-level/#comment-43203 Tue, 20 May 2014 19:17:46 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=11396#comment-43203 In reply to Kimble.

That is a fair point Kimble, a fair point indeed – my key concern is that such a blind focus on a single aggregate misinforms the public, as that is a common result of such things.

To be honest though, my criticisms of the SL have been fairly strong. I would struggle to be much loader without becoming unreasonable 😉

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By: Beware the spirit level | Kiwiblog http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2014/05/19/beware-the-seductive-simplicity-of-the-spirit-level/#comment-43202 Tue, 20 May 2014 19:00:59 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=11396#comment-43202 […] Matt Nolan at TVHE warns: […]

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By: lalitha http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2014/05/19/beware-the-seductive-simplicity-of-the-spirit-level/#comment-43201 Tue, 20 May 2014 12:49:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=11396#comment-43201 wow, this is article very nice , thank you .

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By: Kimble http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2014/05/19/beware-the-seductive-simplicity-of-the-spirit-level/#comment-43195 Mon, 19 May 2014 22:17:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=11396#comment-43195 In reply to Shamubeel Eaqub.

Let me paraphrase that a little.

“They are wrong, but at least they are loud. And now that people looking in this direction it will mean that the quieter, more honest voices on the topic will be heard. You know, over the loud wrong ones. #wishfulthinking”

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2014/05/19/beware-the-seductive-simplicity-of-the-spirit-level/#comment-43192 Mon, 19 May 2014 09:20:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=11396#comment-43192 In reply to Sam Murray.

Hey Sam,

One thing I will say is that, if inequality “caused” status good competition, or people borrowing to act “as if” they are in a higher class, we can build a narrative where wasteful status good competition (as the value is relative) due to inequality is a cost. I buy this, but also recognise how complicated status goods are – and how complicated this makes understanding policy.

My concern is that it will be treated as an “ex-post justification” to simply push the targeting of aggregates. That doesn’t add up to me.

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2014/05/19/beware-the-seductive-simplicity-of-the-spirit-level/#comment-43191 Mon, 19 May 2014 09:18:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=11396#comment-43191 In reply to Shamubeel Eaqub.

Indeed, well said

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