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Comments on: Can physicists please look at a basic textbook before releasing these things http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2014/05/28/can-physicists-please-look-at-a-basic-textbook-before-releasing-these-things/ The Visible Hand in Economics Mon, 02 Jun 2014 21:33:10 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.4 By: Can physicists please look at a basic textbook before releasing these things | The Dismal Science http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2014/05/28/can-physicists-please-look-at-a-basic-textbook-before-releasing-these-things/#comment-43279 Mon, 02 Jun 2014 21:33:10 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=11442#comment-43279 […] and descriptions are not policy relevant until we have a mechanism.  Update:  Good comment by Kiwi poll guy here regarding my first point being wrong – if described as inequality occurring due to luck it […]

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By: lalitha http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2014/05/28/can-physicists-please-look-at-a-basic-textbook-before-releasing-these-things/#comment-43249 Wed, 28 May 2014 09:25:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=11442#comment-43249 Hi Nice Post ,

Love the ideas shared here. The list really huge and it will cover almost everything for any things. Thanks

for the such a lovely post! Again thank you for sharing .

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2014/05/28/can-physicists-please-look-at-a-basic-textbook-before-releasing-these-things/#comment-43248 Wed, 28 May 2014 06:03:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=11442#comment-43248 In reply to Blair.

Always tempted to link that. However, this guy hasn’t just met the subject – he just loves applying basic physics and telling everyone that econs never have. A strange critique given how much I’m told by other disciplines that econ over-relies on classical physics techniques!

Most of the time, both sides haven’t actually checked to see what econs actually do …

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2014/05/28/can-physicists-please-look-at-a-basic-textbook-before-releasing-these-things/#comment-43247 Wed, 28 May 2014 06:02:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=11442#comment-43247 In reply to Peter Cresswell.

Math is a useful language to help make our assumptions clear – but the assumptions need to be built on something. I read that as what you are pointing at here, and agree.

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By: Blair http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2014/05/28/can-physicists-please-look-at-a-basic-textbook-before-releasing-these-things/#comment-43246 Wed, 28 May 2014 05:54:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=11442#comment-43246 http://xkcd.com/793/

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By: Can physicists please look at a basic textbook before releasing these things http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2014/05/28/can-physicists-please-look-at-a-basic-textbook-before-releasing-these-things/#comment-43244 Wed, 28 May 2014 01:02:46 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=11442#comment-43244 […] Matt Nolan FFS, this is probably the worst example of a physicist treating economists like idiots, and saying […]

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By: Peter Cresswell http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2014/05/28/can-physicists-please-look-at-a-basic-textbook-before-releasing-these-things/#comment-43243 Wed, 28 May 2014 00:00:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=11442#comment-43243 Relevant Twitter comment this morning from https://twitter.com/FriedrichHayek :
“You can math model almost anything in Econ … everything except the central causal explanatory elements of the science.”

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2014/05/28/can-physicists-please-look-at-a-basic-textbook-before-releasing-these-things/#comment-43242 Tue, 27 May 2014 21:56:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=11442#comment-43242 In reply to Kiwi Poll Guy.

Interesting – even if it was shown that entropy maximisation describes the observed distribution, I still find it hard to ignore seemingly relevant covariates, or even more importantly the inherent heterogeniety in the characteristics of individuals in the sample.

The kicker here is two-fold:

1) Measurement problems and the such make it a lot more tenuous to compare even a gigantic sample to the “true” distribution. Something I think economists take into account implicitly when holding back on inference from data.
2) Even if the true distribution can be seemingly described by entropy maximisation, I can’t make the leap to prediction due to the Lucas Critique – with agents making active choices, the underlying parameters of the model won’t be invariant to policy. This part of the “mechanism”, stemming from individual choice, also requires modeling. In this case, the process involved would be random chance – and the policy would be redistribution of income based on it solely being chance. So even if we were to accept this extreme assumption (which is patently too extreme), we are only part of the way towards policy design.

This is how I understand it, but if you have any feedback where you think I’m confused I’d be happy to hear it! Methodology and language, especially when it starts crossing disciplines, is important to discuss.

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By: Kiwi Poll Guy http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2014/05/28/can-physicists-please-look-at-a-basic-textbook-before-releasing-these-things/#comment-43241 Tue, 27 May 2014 21:42:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=11442#comment-43241 In reply to Matt Nolan.

Fair enough.

If the distribution predicted by entropy maximisation describes the true distribution well (it doesn’t) then I would argue the entropy maximisation “explains” the distribution. Entropy maximisation *is* the mechanism.

But otherwise agree.

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2014/05/28/can-physicists-please-look-at-a-basic-textbook-before-releasing-these-things/#comment-43238 Tue, 27 May 2014 21:11:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=11442#comment-43238 In reply to Kiwi Poll Guy.

My thought process runs description -> explanation -> understanding.

Description outlines the data. Explanation tells us whether something drives something else. Understanding tells us why something drives something else.

Mechanism may have been too strong a term – I think you’ve got a good point there. If their argument is that inequality could occur purely due to chance, then that is a potential explanation – and I suppose my irritation has more to do with them acting like it is “the” explanation 🙂

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