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Comments on: Secondary and Tertiary education and opportunity: Why fund them differently? http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2014/09/25/secondary-and-tertiary-education-and-opportunity-why-fund-them-differently/ The Visible Hand in Economics Sun, 10 Mar 2019 22:11:26 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.4 By: The high cost of free tuition | The Dismal Science http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2014/09/25/secondary-and-tertiary-education-and-opportunity-why-fund-them-differently/#comment-43612 Fri, 26 Sep 2014 03:38:51 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=11861#comment-43612 […] useful in saying something about the merits, or otherwise, of free mass university tuition schemes.Matt Nolan has a few comments on it here, but focuses more on general principles than on the abominations that would follow a zero-tuition […]

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By: Chris http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2014/09/25/secondary-and-tertiary-education-and-opportunity-why-fund-them-differently/#comment-43611 Fri, 26 Sep 2014 01:32:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=11861#comment-43611 I am a huge fan of the German system, and honestly believe that we’re halfway there with our polytech/university division. I’m saying this because I’m quite sick and tired of dealing with disinterested students who seem to think that the small amount they pay equates to an entitlement, and who don’t realise that they’re 75% subsidised by taxation for their education. Now, I believe tertiary education should be free. But at the same time, I don’t believe it should be considered a right and open to all. It’s not. It’s a privilege. If it were a right then closed courses wouldn’t exist. But they do.

Entry to university should be restricted, because the problem is that most of the people who go aren’t going for reasons for economic benefit to themselves, they’re going to gain the cultural capital involved in a university degree, or they’re going because they have nothing else to do. That is, ‘first one in my family to attend university’. Which is great, unless you just waited until you were 20 and walked into a low entry barrier course without any prior education. All you did was add to the watering down of university education, because if funding is per capita then low entry barrier degrees are afraid to lose people, because they lose funding and they look bad. The current system is just loaded with perverse incentives.

It’s not like NZ society gives people with those degrees many options, either. There are barely any postgraduate transfer courses in things like law or accounting that don’t cost tens of thousands a year in tuition – for which no loans are available – and which offer a professional route to skilled graduates from outside the discipline (like the UK, for example). The current system benefits no-one. Not the individual, who’s either a good student entering a job market flooded with bad graduates all competing for the same jobs and embellishing CVs, or wider society, who now has a bunch of graduates floating around with useless degrees who can’t pay off their loans with bartending jobs. We don’t need yet another recruitment agent with a C degree in media studies. And I don’t need those people sitting in my classes and messing around with their phones and disrupting the work of the 30% or so who are capable and do care.

If, on the other hand, university entry was restricted and the per capita funding model was got rid of so that every course effectively became a closed course, the people who just went because they had nothing else to do, they’d be funneled into those professional level qualifications at polytech, or, they’d get work.

The requirement to have a degree for all kinds of ridiculous things is dragging industries down. They don’t learn much job relevance at university. I worked in finance for a long time, but I didn’t do a finance related degree. But what I noticed was that those people who did degrees, they didn’t really have a clue. They’d been taught nothing about business. And yet, emerging from the university system with a BAcc, they were somehow on paper more valuable than I was.

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2014/09/25/secondary-and-tertiary-education-and-opportunity-why-fund-them-differently/#comment-43608 Thu, 25 Sep 2014 00:04:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=11861#comment-43608 In reply to Paul Walker.

It would be interesting if we started funding degrees based on estimated social benefit – I’d like to see people debating it 🙂

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By: Paul Walker http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2014/09/25/secondary-and-tertiary-education-and-opportunity-why-fund-them-differently/#comment-43607 Wed, 24 Sep 2014 23:58:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=11861#comment-43607 Surely a simple rule would be: Whoever gains the benefits pays the bill. Now I can believe that there are “social returns” to pre-tertiary education but it seems less likely that tertiary education offers much in the way of such returns. Here most benefits are private, thus the difference in funding.

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By: Matt Nolan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2014/09/25/secondary-and-tertiary-education-and-opportunity-why-fund-them-differently/#comment-43603 Wed, 24 Sep 2014 23:17:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=11861#comment-43603 In reply to Seamus Hogan.

You are 100% right – I agree. We offer the loans for opportunity reasons, the fact that the interest rate is artificially low is a transfer.

I was writing in a hurry 😀

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By: Seamus Hogan http://www.tvhe.co.nz/2014/09/25/secondary-and-tertiary-education-and-opportunity-why-fund-them-differently/#comment-43602 Wed, 24 Sep 2014 22:57:00 +0000 http://www.tvhe.co.nz/?p=11861#comment-43602 Matt: `and we offer interest free loans on the basis of “equalising opportunity”’.

I totally agree with your post but for this clause. We offer loans on the basis of “equalising opportunity”; making those loans interest free is exactly the kind of regressive transfer that you note should not be thought of as left wing.

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